2,000 Greater & Lesser Mysteries/2,000 Greater and Lesser Mysteries.iso/ufo/aav/mys02107.txt

Internet Message Format | 1994-06-10 | 821.2 KB

Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!poly-vlsi!usenet.vlsi.polymtl.ca!Rannou
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Rannou)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 09:59:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Wed, 8 Jul 1992 13:31:32 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring) writes:



   In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
   >The highest dimension I've ever heard
   >of is the 10th.

   11th dimension.

   So, now the highest dimension you ever heard of is the 11th.
   You don't have to thank me.

Heck, I've read an article by a physicist or something who tried to explain
quantum mechanics, and he said that our universe was 36dimensionned!

Is that folded enough for you?

Pat.

--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| [e-mail]    |
\---------------------------/
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 14:31:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Payner:
I'll bet this person called Emma is a very intelligent person and could
teach us all a lot.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RE: K2 Report - conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 14:24:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 6

Dear Davoli:
I thought it was funny your making a federal case out of the person
forgetting his camera. Sometimes when you have a real sighting that
you have been searching and trying to get for years, things don't
work out the way you want them to happen.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 14:46:14 GMT
References: <mad-celt.710843848@odin>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 6

Dear Mr. Mad Celt:
The subject of Ley Lines is now on four different collection and it's
nearly impossible for me to keep up with all of this information. We're
now on four collections and I never have really said anything yet. Have
faith I will probubly post something soon.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!jyusenkyou!arromdee
From: [e-mail] (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 17:59:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Arromdee:
>You asked how two different types of beings can mate with one another. The
>answer is very carefully. The same thing is happening right now with the
>people from Z. Reticulli 1 and 2 and ourselves.  You have a group of
>people like the greys who evolved so that they are totally logical
>brought together with our civilization, a group of people who are very
>emotional.  The product of this union is bringing forth a
>civilization that has some of the good qualities of the two civilizations.
>The greys have a different means of elimination in that they eliminate
>their waste products through the skin.

I did not ask what you seem to think I asked.

I wanted to know how they could _have_children_.  In order for two beings to
have children together, it is not enough that they be able to mate.  They must
also have similar genes.  How can a species that originated separately from
earthlings have similar genes?
--
Hi! Ani mutacia shel virus .signature. Ha`atek oti letoch .signature shelcha!

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: [e-mail])
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!kym
From: [e-mail] (R. Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 19:09:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>How can two types of beings who evolved separately have similar enough genes
>to mate and produce children?

And again -- how is it that different species evolved on the SAME planet
can't produce offspring (or, in some cases if so, are ``mules'')?

-kym
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <#7![e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 20:05:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Payner:
>I'll bet this person called Emma is a very intelligent person and could
>teach us all a lot.
>John Winston.

Maybe... Tis hard to tell much from, "Hey, I recongise you, Hi!".

BTW (abbreviation for By The Way), my login is payner, my name is Rich, just
like I sign every post. It is a bad assumption that a persons login is the
same as their name, even if yours is.


Rich   <--- see  :^)

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 21:52:56 GMT
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Dear Rannou:
You asked if I am real and does anybody know me. Don Showen is my friend.
I know Robert Sheaffer and we aggree on a few things one of which is not
UFOs. Mr. Sheaffer recently taped a TV show on Ch.44 in SF to be aired
yesterday.  It was about UFOs (or course) with Richard Haines and Keith
Haray also scheduled. So those are two people that know me.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 22:02:24 GMT
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Dear Ken: I can't give you any information about genes but some women
have been know to have just been looking at a space ship and have lost
some time and would up being impregnated.  The children that they have
are pretty weird looking. You might check out the word Transspermia.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 22:10:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 22:13:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
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Well Pat it seems you have it down pat.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 22:17:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]>
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I understand perfectly Rich. Your right.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Avon products for sale
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 00:20:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
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In a previous article, [e-mail] (chakrapani varanasi) says:

>Avon Products for sale;
>If interested call: ( 219) 287-4938
>
I'm interested if you have something for a strange complection... Pale..
Grayish, actually.

Oh my. The overmind will not be happy if this I do not abort this
message.
^C
^C


--
|Jeff Epler                                                          |
| :) (=( =-] (-= Celebrating the variety of faces =-> :^) {-= |-) (: |
|                                                   Lincoln, Nebraska|
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <c_#[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 00:00:01 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
>John Winston.

John, ya got to get a dictionary. While generally most will ignore a few
spelling errors, too many will make one look bad.

But as to the post, if 1/10000 births are not from human
males, then where are they from? If UFO's, then we do not have a
"self protection" system, but something external to the system, and
I suppose it is responsive to different needs.

But how is this a "protection" system at all? It seems like some sort of
-alien- protection system if anything. Somehow it is to their benefit, and
out benefit would not seem to be a factor. I don't even want to touch the
moral and ethical questions, but would the, err, troubled parent (not
parents) be bound to care for an alien child that resulted from rape? It
is not at all clear.

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 01:52:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <61898@cup
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (alan smith)
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X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.

In article <[e-mail]> kym@bingsu
s.cc.binghamton.edu (R. Kym Horsell) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> arromdee@jyusenkyou
cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>>How can two types of beings who evolved separately have similar enough
enes
>>to mate and produce children?
>
>And again -- how is it that different species evolved on the SAME planet
>can't produce offspring (or, in some cases if so, are ``mules'')?
>
>-kym


Different species have different numbers and types of genes.  The reason
species from the same planet cant reproduce is that If you mixed a (say)
human spermatazoan with a (say) cow ovum:

1)the poor sperm would have a problem getting inside the ovum, not all
sperm are the same.

2) the chromosome numbers are different, so you run into replication
problems.  (Although you CAN cross Gibbons and Orangutangs, which have the
same problem, but that's another story.)

3) the structural differences between the two species are so different
that you wind up with the blueprints for an unviable creature and it
spontaneously aborts.

I haven't the faintest clue why there are mules.

Big Al.   Lookin' around for that Bio text.  I knew I left it around here
somewhere.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 05:51:13 GMT
References: <mad-celt.710843848@odin> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

Dear Mad Celt: Sorry I'm not informed about any connection of Ley Lines
and the Saint Louis Arch.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Welcome
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 05:53:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Now is that a nice thing to say.  You sound as if you are a person from
Oregon, USA.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 06:09:29 GMT
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  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Dear Denise: It's good to hear another human on this network that knows
me.  I might add that we don't especially believe the same things but we
know one other.  Sometimes after a few days I don't even believe what
I believed a few days before.  Please let us all know how you planned
encounter with the hypnotheropist comes out and your future investigation
of the lady who sees the UFO down near S. L., Calif.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Park)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 07:25:30 GMT
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In article <c_#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
>>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
>>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
>>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
>>John Winston.
[...]
>But as to the post, if 1/10000 births are not from human
>males, then where are they from? If UFO's, then we do not have a
>"self protection" system, but something external to the system, and
>I suppose it is responsive to different needs.
[...]
>
>Rich
>
>[e-mail]

Perhaps Mr. Winston is referring to parthenogenesis (but does it
occur in human beings?)


--
Ciao-abunga!           +-------------------------------------+
Michael Park           | This space intentionally left blank |
[e-mail] +-------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!orstcs!leela!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc
From: [e-mail] (Major Havok)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 07:05:31 GMT
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In article <c_#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
>>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
>>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
>>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
>>John Winston.
>
  [stuff deleted]
>
>But as to the post, if 1/10000 births are not from human
>males, then where are they from? If UFO's, then we do not have a
>"self protection" system, but something external to the system, and
>I suppose it is responsive to different needs.
>
  [more stuff deleted]

>Rich
>
>[e-mail]


   It is possible to trick the female's egg into 'believing' that it's been
fertilized. It will then begin to grow as a normal, fertilized egg cell, but
since it has not received any 'foreign' DNA, all the cell can do is to make
a genetic duplicate of the mother (though some traits might be slightly
different). This would hardly seem to be a self protection method though,
since by creating a genetic duplicate of the mother, nothing is really done
to enhance the 'genetic pool'. This could be a minor factor in accounting
for why there is a slightly greater tendency for a female child to be born
rather than a male child.
--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| [e-mail]  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix1.tcd.ie!ewillims
From: [e-mail] (Emma Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 11:23:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]>
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In <#7![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Dear Payner:
>>I'll bet this person called Emma is a very intelligent person and could
>>teach us all a lot.
>>John Winston.

>Maybe... Tis hard to tell much from, "Hey, I recongise you, Hi!".


        Excuse me, Rich, but I never wrote "Hey, I recongise you,
Hi!". For a start, I do know how to spell!!!! I think you'll find that it
was someone else who knows John.
                EMMA!

    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|




>Rich   <--- see  :^)

>[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 11:36:35 GMT
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Hmmm, as far as space aliens fornicating and impregnating earth women, one has
only to browse the Christian Bible.

If one assume the Greys (or Blues or Greens or whatever) genetically altered
some extant species to become concubines and/or food, one can also assume the
alterations were performed with "compatibility" in mind (ref. the origin of
the human species).

Given the "Cargo Cult" phenomenon of WWII, it's easy to speculate that any
technically-advanced visitors would be perceived as "gods."  Was it not Ray
Bradbury who commented "advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."?

The relevant citations from the Bible are enclosed; you can have the pleasure
of determining what the "we" and "us" and "sons of God" represent; a team of
Zeta Reticulan ET exobiologists under the command of Capt. Yahweh? :-)

Double hmmm, as for whether or not "they" come from Zeta Reticulii, consider
this passage from the Q'uran:

``    "The Ways of Ascent"
    [...]
    4.    To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the
         measure of which is fifty thousand years.
''

which kinda suggests their vehicle's speed re: time dilation.  Anyone want
to calculate the velocity at which one day relativistic day is 50,000 years
real time?

I'm not saying *I* subscribe to any of these theories, conjectures, etc., but
it is interesting food for thought and speculation.

Ponder and enjoy!  :-)

---------- Bible extracts (from the Project Gutenberg edition):

GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
    likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and
    over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth,
    and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
    created he him; male and female created he them.

[...]

GEN 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that
    God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

GEN 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called
    their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

[...]

GEN 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of
    the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

GEN 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were
    fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

GEN 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,
    for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty
    years.

GEN 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
    that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they
    bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
    men of renown.

-------------------- end enclosure
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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Rating on Dulce Report and K2 Report
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 05:02:02 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-12-92 22:01

Recently we published two reports generated by the Phoenix Project, a group in
Carson City, Nevada.  These two documents allege that members of this group
investigated reports of underground alien bases in Dulce, New Mexico, and an
underground alien base located in the Plumas National Forest in Northern
California.

Because of the following findings/reasons, ParaNet has assigned a high level of
probability that the material contained in the documents is disinformation and
is inaccurate.

The reasons are as follows:

1)  The Phoenix Project is unknown to the general UFO research community.  No
where in any of the materials are the principals of the organization
identified.  As is the case with any materials where substantive findings are
reported, it demonstrates a strong lack of credibility when the names and
addresses of the investigators are not provided.

2)  Due to an investigation that has been ongoing, we have found that the
material on Dulce is inaccurate.  It is interesting that the Dulce report
denies that anything exists at Dulce.  Although we have found no information to
the contrary, we feel that the report from the Phoenix Project is inaccurate as
to location of buildings and other factors.  There are things down there which
are unusual.

3)  The K2 material is too ambiguous and does not provide enough reliable data
bits to launch an investigation into the claims.  It appears that although the
report is written with some literary license, the findings are presented in a
very unscientific fashion.

ParaNet will provide a complete report of its investigation into the various
other claims contained in the reports as soon as the information is available.
We have written to the Phoenix Project requesting further information.

In the meantime, we urge caution in the use of this material.

Michael Corbin
Director
ParaNet Information Services

--
ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: ParaNet(sm)[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!kym
From: [e-mail] (R. Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 12:02:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7023 sci.skeptic:27201
Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.

From this I deduce that 1/5000 women are clones.
You may well be correct. But I thought the number would be higher. ;-)

-kym
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 13:34:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7024 sci.skeptic:27205

Dear Thad@cup:
There is a lot of truth in what you say. In my opinion the bible has been
coded in such a way that it sounds like a bunch of fairy tales to the
uninformed but it does have a deep meaning one can figure it out. It is
Don Showen idea and he once loaned me a book that proved it, that the big
Y----- was a reptillian.  It says that Satan was a serpant. It sounds
funny but Lucifer is alive and well in the San Diego, Calif area. His
name is Vaughn and he is trying to undo a lot of things he did before.
If he can make a turn around maybe there is hope for us. Don Showen has
some classic  experiences with an high ranking angel in San Diego that
maybe he will enlighten us on. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 13:46:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Chris Wood: You have come across a fact that our scientist have
found to be true and that is when we do have cases where earth women
have children without being impregnated by a male the offspring is usually
a female in most cases.  The reason that our scientist have a problem
telling people about this is that most people would then get on their
case and say "Oh you are just trying to disprove the virgin birth of
J. C."  After a little while of trying to reason with them about this
they just say, "Forget I ever said anything".
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!ukma!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 14:15:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 100


    [e-mail] (Joe Citro III) writes:

    Did anyone else out there catch the Sightings show on the Fox
    Network last night (10 July 92)?  I know some of you are
    overseas, so here is a brief overview.

.... yeah, it was a fairly short segment, which touched on (barely) the
helicopters-with-no-markings stuff too.

        Apparently some of the latest UFO sightings have a common
    characteristc.  Men in black have been threatening the
    witnesses!!


.... actually, this sort of report is not new:

   From Brad Steiger's disorganized opus "Mysteries of Time & Space"
Prenntice-Hall, 1974, ISBN 0-113-609040-0 (some of the book first
appeared in "Saga" and "Male" magazine -- that should give you some
context of the 'hardness' of this info, but it is grist for the mill).

   In September, 1953 Albert K. Bender had figured out parts of the
origin of flying saucers, and sent his theory off to a "trusted
friend".  Soon thereafter three men dressed in black appeared, with
his letter in hand.  They told him 'the real story', and he became
ill.

   Bender, apparently to "save mankind", kept the details to himself
and gave up UFO research.  Parts of this story were retold in Gray
Barker's "They knew too much about flying saucers" (1956) [without the
part of 'revealed truth'], and said that several other people (in
Australia and New Zealand) had also been visited.

   Bender decided to tell all in his 1962  "Flying Saucers and the
Three Men", which (Steiger says) was disappointing, in that it didn't
tell much (that anyone wanted to know, anyway).  Alien bases in
Antartica (which Bender saw by Astral Projection), and so on.  (I
haven't been able to find this book.)

   However, others continued to stick to the MIB story, saying that
Bender had in fact been silenced.  "Bender was a changed man after the
MIB visited him.  It was as if he had been lobotomized."  He suffered
headaches that he said were caused by 'them'.

   Steiger says that "large numbers" of UFO-ologists have been
harassed by *somebody*.  A number of them (none named, unfortunately)
had had photographs and negatives of UFO's confiscated by people
claiming "government affiliation" (curious term, that) - "usually
three, usually dressed in black". [BTW, if you ever get a visit from
MIB (or indeed bona fide government agents, what they're asking you to
do is a violation of search and seizure laws.]

   In an issue of "Saucer Scoop" (as usual, Steiger doesn't give an
issue number) John Keel is quoted as saying that MIB are professional
terrorists who go from place to place making sure that too much isn't
found out about the UFO phenominon.  Keel says that MIB victims appear
to  be subjected to "some sort of brainwashing technique that leaves
him in a state of nausea, mental confusion, or even amnesia lasting
for several days".  Keel goes on to charge that local police/FBI/etc.
must be in on it, because they refuse to investigate MIB.


   Col. George Freeman (Blue Book) was quoted by Steiger as being
quoted by Keel (do you get the drift here of Mr. Steiger's
"journalistic" zeal?) as saying that MIB cases were investigated by
Blue Book, and that they weren't connected to the Air Force in any
way.  Steiger goes on to detail how four bogus USAF officers
(Men-In-Blue, I guess :-) told witnesses in NJ that they "hadn't seen
a thing" in 1967, and that they shouldn't tell anyone what they saw.

.... Steiger goes on to give sketchy details of several other MIB
visitations (though several are of encounters with a single man, not
three), claiming to be NORAD officers, from the "UFO Research
Institute", and (my favorite) "a government agency so secret he
couldn't give its name".  Also, telephone and mail harassment and
messages from TV's and radios are mentioned.  The MIB know where
you're going, where you've been, and what you've been doing, and will
tell you such things to convince you to be quiet.

  From there, Steiger goes off the deep end, claiming that MIB are to
be found throughout history, as "Trickster", "Poltergeist" or
"Sorcerer" figures.  Well, I didn't say this was a good source, now
did I?

   A comment on clothing:  I've seen various things about the material
the MIB supposedly wear -- its made of a plastic-like substance, a
rubbery substance, and in Steiger's book the material is described by
"Major Joseph Jenkins, Retired, Field Investigations Director for the
UFO Research Institute of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania" in 1968 as
"reminding him of the quilted uniforms (by Korean/Chinese troops) in
the Korean war".

   Comments on appearance: I've seen all sorts of descriptions of
MIB's physical appearance -- here's another that I haven't seen
before:   "Jim" (no date, no last name): "He was cadaverous... he
looked like those WWII photographs of someone in a concentration camp.
But he seemed alert enough."

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Message-ID: <cw#[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 13:56:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 30
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7027 sci.skeptic:27208

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
>>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
>>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
>>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
>

John, can you please provide even the *slightest* evidence that this is
true, that "human parthenogenesis" does in fact occur? Preferably a
solid medical source, like "Journal of the American Medical Society"
or "Lancet," and not the "Weekly World News."

If you are right, just *think* of all the people unnecessarily forced
into shotgun weddings!



--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 14:28:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Now I'll make a statement about about Ley Lines that will drive the
regualar scientist up the wall.  The best way to check for Ley Lines
is to dowse using a water witch (forked stick).
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 14:04:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7029 sci.skeptic:27209

Dear Rich: You ask where do these offsprings (bouncing baby boys or girls)
come from in the case of women who have known no man. In my opinion, and
I'm not expert in anything except bringing up controversial subjects,
all women have both the male and female parts to imprenate their
own bodies.  I believe that some men have both male and female parts in
them also and that brings up the subject of m--------, of which we some-
times think we are going to see if we go to a side show. Anyway their
are several types of conception two of which we are talking about here.
The first is women with no man the second is transspermia in which case
beings in space crafts impregnate Earth women.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 14:19:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7030 sci.skeptic:27210

Dear Rich:
If you ever get a posting and it's supposed to be from me and it doesn't
have any misspelled words in it then it's probubly not me. The
protection system refers only to the human species and it's ability to
reproduce itself in the case all male are destroyed.  It doen't refer
to the space people impregrating us.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 14:57:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10714 alt.alien.visitors:7031 sci.skeptic:27211

Dear Don:
I had a person asked me how he could get more information about the
people from the p----------. I mailed him the address you gave out for
Barbara.  I once read a book called Allies that gave a lot of infor-
mation about these people. We have the same ancestors as they do.
One of their favorite games is to make things levitate in the air.
Many of their people do this at the same time and they produce
beautiful objects that stay in the air as long as they
hold them there with their combined mind power.
Good luck to you and may the wind always be to your back.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:01:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 2

Yes Emma you are correct. I don't know you.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:14:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 8

To Everybody: I just picked up a copy of International UFO Library
Magazine Vol.1,No 3 and it talks about a person by the name of Robert
Stanley. Robert has done research on a lost city located in the
southern Calif. mountains.  This is a much publicized until now
theory of a 30.000 year old city pioneered by space travellers from
our closest neighbor star system,  Alpha Centares.  According to
Gotta go.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!vargish
From: [e-mail] (Nick Vargish)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:29:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <cw#[e-mail]>
Sender: Nick Vargish
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7034 sci.skeptic:27212

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>The human race has a self protection
>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.

The more this thing is re-posted and re-quoted, the less apealing I
find the idea of being "killed just like [a] chicken."

Does this have something to do with food for the Greys?

Nick

--
|  Nick Vargish       | "I'm just another wide area network packet-herder..." |
|  SURAnet Operations +-------------------------------------------------------+
|  [e-mail]   | "SURAnet  and I do  not have a  relationship based on |
|  h: 301 474-1863    | mutually-shared ideologies.  Don't assume otherwise." |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!kym
From: [e-mail] (R. Kym Horsell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 14:44:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7035 sci.skeptic:27213
Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>technically-advanced visitors would be perceived as "gods."  Was it not Ray
>Bradbury who commented "advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."?

No, that was A C Clarke.

-kym
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:30:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

As I was saying on the previous article, According to Robert, who
discovered the hidden ancient ruins while hiking in late 1985, "There
have been many credible witnesses that I have guided to this desolate
site over the last 8 years of my research including scientists,
anthropologists, archaeologists, and even engineers who were amazed and in
awe as to why these ruins haven't been documented years before.  Each
and everyone of them were convinced through the physical evidence seen
first-hand that this new amazing discovery is indeed the remains of
some city that is very, very old."  This is me talking now. I wonder
if this is the same city I was looking for under Cima, Calif. a few
years back. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <9x#[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:02:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 39

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew) writes:
>
>   From Brad Steiger's disorganized opus "Mysteries of Time & Space"
>Prenntice-Hall, 1974, ISBN 0-113-609040-0 (some of the book first
>appeared in "Saga" and "Male" magazine -- that should give you some
>context of the 'hardness' of this info, but it is grist for the mill).
>
>   In September, 1953 Albert K. Bender had figured out parts of the
>origin of flying saucers, and sent his theory off to a "trusted
>friend".  Soon thereafter three men dressed in black appeared, with

Believe it or not, the account provided here *is* pretty much accurate!
I have a chapter on the MIB in my book "The UFO Verdict" (Prometheus)
for those who crave more of this stuff.

One huge caveat, though: throughout this tale, we must understand it
in terms like

               "Bender *claimed* he was visited by MIB"

 and not       "Bender *was* visited by three Men in Black"


I trust you can understand the difference.


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:49:50 GMT
References: <mad-celt.710843848@odin> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Dear Everybody: It's becomning harder and harder (As Mr. Harder would
say) to keep up with these four collections on Ley Lines, but I was talking
on another collection (another one about Ley Lines) about a person
called Robert M. Stanley who has found an underground city in southern
Calif. I will now continue with the information. Unicus (the name of a
magazine interviewing him): Why did you decide to get involved with this
find? Robert: When I first set eyes on these ancient ruins, I had an
incredible feeling of deja vu and my heart literally stopped a beat. I
have traveled to 57 countries around the globe visiting many well known
archaeological sites and never in my life have I had the experience of
physically seeing---John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <hy#[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:16:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 33

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Emma Williams) writes:
>In <#7![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>Dear Payner:
>>>I'll bet this person called Emma is a very intelligent person and could
>>>teach us all a lot.
>>>John Winston.
>
>>Maybe... Tis hard to tell much from, "Hey, I recongise you, Hi!".
>
>
>        Excuse me, Rich, but I never wrote "Hey, I recongise you,
>Hi!". For a start, I do know how to spell!!!! I think you'll find that it
>was someone else who knows John.
>                EMMA!

My apologies. That was not a quote of course. And while I do know how to
spell, my typing leaves much to be desired.

Next time I'll re-read the post and get it straight. :^)

>    ____________________________________________________________________
>    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
>    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
>    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
>    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
>
>>Rich   <--- see  :^)
>
>>[e-mail]

Rich --- again!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 16:01:35 GMT
References: <mad-celt.710843848@odin> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Dear Everybody:
the dream I've been having my entire life. It was then that I felt my
research of this mystic mountain was inevitable. UNICUS. What sources
of information did you acquire to document this strange phenomena?
Robert: Churchward first caught my attention with his writings on Mu,
as wellas Blavatsky, whose documented authenticity was gained from
secret Asian sources. Upon further study, I came to realize that the
Chumash  Indian's tribal history speaks of an era when a great flood
enveloped the Mu. The tribe belives that it was created after the
flood then guided to North America's west coast on a rainbow by their
earth Goddess Hutash.   John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!ogicse!reed!orstcs!leela!jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU!woodc
From: [e-mail] (Major Havok)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:39:29 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet programs owner)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Chris Wood: You have come across a fact that our scientist have
>found to be true and that is when we do have cases where earth women
>have children without being impregnated by a male the offspring is usually
>a female in most cases.  The reason that our scientist have a problem
>telling people about this is that most people would then get on their
>case and say "Oh you are just trying to disprove the virgin birth of
>J. C."  After a little while of trying to reason with them about this
>they just say, "Forget I ever said anything".
>John Winston.

  Unless I am mistaken, an ovum stimulated into beginning the reproductive
cycle without having been fertilized could only make a genetic clone of
the mother and thus it would seem that ALL children born of this rare type
of pregnancy would be females. The traits of the offspring might vary
slightly due to difference in nutrition or exposure to chemicals or
radiation that may affect the growth of the offspring, but the genetic
blueprint would be the same.

  My reasoning behind saying that this may be a minor factor in the reason
why the odds of a female child being born a greater than a male child being
born are that if the natural odds of a female being born are 1:2, and if
the odds of a child being born as a clone of the mother (thus being female)
are 1:10000 (or whatever), then the combined odds would slightly favor a
female child being born. I'm not saying that those are the only two factors
that would account for the odds of a female being born versus a male being
born, but those two seemed very logical to me. Am I wrong?

--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Chris Wood                |  "If you can't convince them, confuse them." |
| [e-mail]  |                                   -unknown   |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 17:49:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
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Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
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Dear J---
I d--'t unders---d y--r idiom.  What is th- significanc of t--
dashes?  Is anyon- supp-sed to have any idea at all wh-t you are
trying to say?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!agate!boulder!tigger!schiffd
From: [e-mail] (David M. Schiff)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 18:46:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Planet)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear J---
>I d--'t unders---d y--r idiom.  What is th- significanc of t--
>dashes?  Is anyon- supp-sed to have any idea at all wh-t you are
>trying to say?

N-w y-- k-o- d-- w-l- wh--- -e i- t---n- to -a-!
I un---nd it -erf---ly!

furthermore,
    I-- ------ ---- -- - ------
    a-- ---- --- ---- -- - ---- r---
    --------v l-----!
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From: [e-mail] (Emma Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 18:56:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <hy#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie)
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In <hy#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Emma Williams) writes:
>>In <#7![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>>Dear Payner:
>>>>I'll bet this person called Emma is a very intelligent person and could
>>>>teach us all a lot.
>>>>John Winston.
>>
>>>Maybe... Tis hard to tell much from, "Hey, I recongise you, Hi!".
>>
>>
>>        Excuse me, Rich, but I never wrote "Hey, I recongise you,
>>Hi!". For a start, I do know how to spell!!!! I think you'll find that it
>>was someone else who knows John.
>>                EMMA!

>My apologies. That was not a quote of course. And while I do know how to
>spell, my typing leaves much to be desired.

>Next time I'll re-read the post and get it straight. :^)
>
>>    ____________________________________________________________________
>>    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
>>    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
>>    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
>>    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
>>
>>>Rich   <--- see  :^)
>>
>>>[e-mail]

>Rich --- again!i


        Dear Rich,
            Come home! All is forgiven! :)
                        Emma!

    ____________________________________________________________________
    |   Emma Williams            | Dad, I guess you're wondering why   |
    |   [e-mail]    | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes  |
    |                 | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> )       |
    |____________________________|_____________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!gatech!taco!hes
From: [e-mail] (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 19:06:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Major Havok) writes:
> ...
>  My reasoning behind saying that this may be a minor factor in the reason
>why the odds of a female child being born a greater than a male child being
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>born are that if the natural odds of a female being born are 1:2, and if
>the odds of a child being born as a clone of the mother (thus being female)
>are 1:10000 (or whatever), then the combined odds would slightly favor a
>female child being born. I'm not saying that those are the only two factors
>that would account for the odds of a female being born versus a male being
>born, but those two seemed very logical to me. Am I wrong?

  The odds of a female child being born are slightly less than of a
male child being born.  This is going in the wrong direction for
this explanation.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue
From: [e-mail] (Michael C Konsul)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 19:29:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
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In article <c_#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
>
>But as to the post, if 1/10000 births are not from human
>males, then where are they from? If UFO's, then we do not have a
>"self protection" system, but something external to the system, and
>I suppose it is responsive to different needs.

I think he's talking about a process (about which I know very little)
called parthenogenesis, where the egg spontaneously undergoes meiosis (?)
and starts up without any sperm.  My Biology I was a long time ago...maybe
somone else wants to take this further.  If so, they should probably take it
elsewhere.

    RA
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 19:51:30 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
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X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In Article #5430, [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
tells us:

"Bender decided to tell all in his 1962 'Flying Saucers
and the Three Men'...Alien bases in Antarctica (which
Bender saw by Astral Projection) and so on."

Charles, are you sure it was a case of the guy's NAME
being "Bender", instead of his being ON one?....

                         ;)

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chenmistry Instructors in the Galaxy
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 20:10:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (R. Kym Horsell) writes:

|In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
|>technically-advanced visitors would be perceived as "gods."  Was it not Ray
|>Bradbury who commented "advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
?
|
|No, that was A C Clarke.

Thanks!

I believe I have everything both gentlemen have written and it's embarrassing
to misattribute a quote such as that.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!suite!suite.com!mckelvey
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 20:17:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Joe Citro III) writes:
> Men in black have been threatening the witnesses!!  These
> Men in black or MIB's are being reported by witnesses throughout the
> world (i.e. Canada and Russia), as well as here in the U.S.

MIB have been reported by UFO followers for at LEAST ten years.  About that
time I came across a hard-core UFO magazine, in which the hot theory was that
they were FBI agents, threatening witnesses to keep them quiet as part of an
extensive government coverup.  Glad to see they're still around.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 20:44:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <9x#[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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    [e-mail] writes:
    I trust you can understand the difference.

.... nope, I didn't, until now.  When I read your message I got down on
my knees and thanked god for people like you.... Oops, I mean I
*claimed* I got down on my ... well, you get the idea.  :-)

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!attcan!ncrcan!cattnts!craig
From: [e-mail] (Craig Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 15:04:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins) writes:

>It only takes a few seconds to cross one end of the galaxy to the other through
>a wormhole connecting the two ends.

Of course, wormholes are just a theory.  Passing through one and surviving
does not yet exist even in theory, just fantasy.


--
Craig Campbell        |    These opinions are entirely the result of a
Systems Engineer    |    small butterfly crashing into the far side
NCR Canada,        |    of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
an AT&T Company        |    I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.
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From: [e-mail] (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 21:13:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Mon, 13 Jul 92 07:19:26 PDT

Is this John_-_Winston for real, or is someone pulling our leg.  I
find it hard to believe that some one this stupid could survive till
maturity.

--
Gerry Roston ([e-mail])    | In the first place it is to be remembered
Field Robotics Center,          | that the general government is not to be
Carnegie Mellon University      | charged with the whole power of making and
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | administering laws.  Its jurisdiction is
[phone]                  | limited to certain enumerated objects...
                                | James Madison
The opinions expressed are mine |
and do not reflect the official |
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  |
or any other organization.      |
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!sweiger
From: [e-mail] (Mark Sweiger)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 22:20:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet )
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Everybody: It's becomning harder and harder (As Mr. Harder would
>say) to keep up with these four collections on Ley Lines, but I was talking
>on another collection (another one about Ley Lines) about a person
>called Robert M. Stanley who has found an underground city in southern
>Calif. I will now continue with the information. Unicus (the name of a
>magazine interviewing him): Why did you decide to get involved with this
>find? Robert: When I first set eyes on these ancient ruins, I had an
>incredible feeling of deja vu and my heart literally stopped a beat. I
>have traveled to 57 countries around the globe visiting many well known
>archaeological sites and never in my life have I had the experience of
>physically seeing---John Winston.

Well, exactly where are these ruins?  I'd like to go see them.

--Mark


--
phone: [phone]    fax: [phone]   internet: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!utopia!gary
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Fuck the CIA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Jul 92 19:20:38 GMT
Organization: U.T.O.P.I.A.
Lines: 7
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SEE ? I am everywhere ! It's impossible to implant me with one of your
crystals..


 ---
[e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:28:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Thad Floryan:  Could you be any chance be related to my friend
Thaddeus Floryan not deceased. He was a great investigator of UFOs and
retired military officier.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:32:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Thad: That last transmission may have not gotten through right,
but Thaddeus or Thadeus Floryan was a good friend of mine.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:39:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear RA: That's sounds as good an explanation as any.  My teacher or Guru
once told me that he had informed his mon and dad that he had been
observing them before he was born.  His father at the time was suffering
from some male sex problem at the time (his p------- gland) and they
hadn't had sex for quite some time before he was born.  They said that
he was right in his information.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:45:56 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Chris:
Sounds like you have a good way of looking at it. Just to throw another
fudge factor once my Guru (who was a male till he died 3 years ago) was
a female (Mary Queen of Scotts).  Now how about those apples?
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:48:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <cw#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Hey Nick: That was a really funny flame.  You have a wonderful
imagination.
John Winston
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:58:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Kym: You've got a good point there. If a great person comes along
we like to make them into a god and if they don't want that then we'll
nail them to a tree.
The man that told Shirley McClain about his experiences down in South
America and they made the mini-series about came in contact with a nice
looking space lady that ultimately gave him a ride in her ship. She
could put on a certain type of clothing and light up like the Virgin of
Guadelupe.  He was along when she did this in front of some natives and
the natives thought that he and she were Gods.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!ubc-cs!mala.bc.ca!oneb!kmcvay
From: [e-mail] (Ken Mcvay)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Fuck the CIA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 00:24:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>SEE ? I am everywhere ! It's impossible to implant me with one of your
>crystals..

We did it last week, glasshead, when you were in the shower playing with
yourself.

--
"I mean the clearing out of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race.
It's one of those things it is easy to talk about -- `The Jewish race is being
exterminated,' says one party member, `that's quite clear, it's in our program
-- elimination of the Jews, and we're doing it, exterminating them.'"[Himmler]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!sono!lawson
From: [e-mail] (Drew Lawson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 19:52:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
Lines: 22
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Tom and VU208:
>Sometimes the flames are better than my material.  My comlements to you.
>You asked in jest how are we brought on earth planet and then mention
>Adam and Eve.  The story of Adam ane Eve is about two people but at a deeper
>level it is the story of the Adamic race (a highly evolved spiritual race
>of people) who came to earth and mated with the more fleshly animal type
>of being (who were fair to look upon) and they produced the race that we
>are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by
>Eve in the story.
>John Winston.

I see you've read _Chariots of the Gods_, too.  I found that concept
("sons of god" and "daughters of men") intriguing when I was 12.  I
hadn't thought about it for years.

Thanks for the memory.

(Now, where's that copy of _Pyrimid Power_)
--
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
[e-mail]                you're part of the precipitate
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ukma!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 01:05:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 12


    [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone) writes:
    [Astral Projects, etc.]
    Charles, are you sure it was a case of the guy's NAME being
    "Bender", instead of his being ON one?....

Hey, I just read the books, I don't write 'em!  (Good thing, eh? :-) I
thought it was interesting that this sort of thing has become
something of a commonly-told story... You might remember this guy's
story the next time you see the "Phoenix Journal" and such go by...

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!barracuda.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:53:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 48
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10724 alt.alien.visitors:7064 sci.skeptic:27243

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Patrick Rannou) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|>
|>
|>
|>    In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>    |> Dear Arasis:
|>    |> I was in the town of Mt. Shasta City at 9:00 P.M. July the 4th watching
|>    |> the fire works.  At 9:20 P.M. I remembered about your group activity and
|>    |> pointed my flashlight over towards Mt. Shasta (the mountain itself). I
|>    |> blinked the light on and off and someone or something (I don't know for
|>    |> sure what) was blinking back.  I sent the people inside the mountain and
|>    |> the space people a telepathic thought that we love them and want to work
|>    |> with them for the good of the Earth and everything else. So, thanks to you
|>    |> Arasis for your suggestion that we do this.
|>    |> That's all folks.
|>    |> John Winston.
|>
|>
|>    Is this guy for real?
|>
|>    Anyone know him?
|>
|>
|> I'm sure that by "telephatic message" he meant that even though HE know he
|> can't send ones, he made his "thoughts" formulated as if he was saying
|> words in his head, and if BY CHANCE there happened to be a alien, be it
|> green or whatever, who happened to have telephatic powers and "read"
|> peoples mind, then the alien could have catched it.
|>
|> Pretty useless, IMHO. I've done it also.
|>
|> The guy's for real. You're just too close minded.
|>
|> Really, with enough "facts", anybody can make anybody, even himself,
|> believe just about anything. That absolutely has no bearing on wheter
|> the "anything" is true or false.
|>
|> Patrick.
|> --
|> /---------------------------\
|> | Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
|> | [e-mail]    |
|> \---------------------------/

Saying that I am close minded, is like saying Greys aren't abducting.

Brick
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!barracuda.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: too many personal messages
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 00:13:47 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Followup-To: John Winston
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 13

John,

Can you limit the massive volume of personal posts?

I think that you could send the person you are responding to a private message,
rather than posting a million partial conversations, thereby allowing everyone
 on the net to not have to go thru your half conversations.

Not a flame.

Oh, I could have sent you a personal message, but...

Brick
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!barracuda.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 00:46:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 19
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10725 alt.alien.visitors:7066 sci.skeptic:27244

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> Dear Don:
|> I had a person asked me how he could get more information about the
|> people from the p----------. I mailed him the address you gave out for
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why are you blanking out this!!  If you dont want us to read it, send the
shit to Don directly!!

JESUS!!


|> Barbara.  I once read a book called Allies that gave a lot of infor-
|> mation about these people. We have the same ancestors as they do.
|> One of their favorite games is to make things levitate in the air.
|> Many of their people do this at the same time and they produce
|> beautiful objects that stay in the air as long as they
|> hold them there with their combined mind power.
|> Good luck to you and may the wind always be to your back.
|> John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ulowell!woods.ulowell.edu!lewish
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ufo gifs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 03:02:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News manager - ulowell)
Organization: University of Lowell
Lines: 5


A short time ago someone posted a ftp site that held space and
ufo gifs. Could you repost this please.


Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!gisle
From: [e-mail] (Gisle Hannemyr)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 02:15:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Gisle Hannemyr)
Organization: [e-mail]
Lines: 8
Nntp-Posting-Host: gyda.ifi.uio.no
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 13 Jul 92 21:13:54 GMT
Originator: [e-mail]

Dear Gerry, I believe John is actually is a real person.  He claims to
know several people who also claims to be real.  Then there is of
course the possibility that these any people don't exist anywhere
except on the net but there may be other fish to catch (did you get
the pun).  If he is for real I'm sure you will find that he is a
truely fine and wise person and with and extraordinary capacity for
believing things.  Personally I try to believe at least three
impossible things before breakfast. That's all folks.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 04:27:03 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 168
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7069 alt.paranormal:5390
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

This is a report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.

In his talk on abductions July 11, Budd Hopkins reported on the case of
Linda, whose abduction has been confirmed by several witnesses. The
following is a synopsis of his report:

---

On or about the evening of November 30, 1989, at approximately 3:15 AM,
Linda (last name withheld) was asleep in her apartment on the 12th
floor of an apartment building in New York City, together with her
husband and two young sons. She made contact with Budd Hopkins and
under hypnosis reported being levitated off her bed, approached by
three grey aliens, and transported with them through her apartment wall
out above the street and then up into a floating disk. She reported
that she sensed her nightgown being drawn up to her face.

A few weeks later, Dan (last name withheld) wrote a letter to Hopkins,
stating that he and his partner Richard (last name withheld) had
witnessed the event from a car parked on the street about a block
away.  He described a young woman and three small grey creatures
emerging from the side of the building at the 12th floor in a fetal
position, arms wrapped around their legs, head up, with one creature
above the woman and the other two below and to each side. After
emerging from the side of the building, their bodies extended and they
were then lifted up and into the floating disk, which was described as
having an orange glowing topside, with yellow illumination extending
down and outward, except for a narrow bluish beam extending straight
downward up which the four figures were lifted. Dan reported that after
the figures entered the craft, it then moved over and down into the
river (name withheld by author) and never reappeared. Dan described
himself and Richard as "undercover policemen" who would not publicly
come forward for fear of damaging their careers. Dan said they were
both extremely upset by the incident, fearing for the life or safety of
the young woman, and distressed that they had been unable to do
anything to help her.  Dan stated that he and Richard would attempt to
visit the apartment from which Linda had been taken to see what became
of her.

Having no way to contact Dan or Richard, Hopkins read their letter to
Linda, advising her that they might visit her, and asking her to ask
them to contact him again if they did.

Dan and Richard then went to Linda's apartment, and when they identified
themselves, Linda told them Hopkins had told her to expect them. Dan
and Richard were very relieved that Linda was seemingly okay, and Linda
expressed mixed feelings, saying that it might have been easier to
accept being crazy than having it be confirmed that it really happened.

Dan and Richard did not agree to visit Hopkins, but Linda did get them
to agree to send Hopkins an audiotape giving a more detailed account
of the events of November 30, and a few days later Hopkins did receive
the audiotape, which he played for the MUFON audience. Dan reported that
Richard was so concerned about Linda that he had taken to observing
her and her apartment during off hours to make sure she was okay.

In the meantime, Linda developed discomfort in her right nostril and
visited her physician, who took an Xray. A day or two later, before the
Xray was developed and returned, Linda woke up with blood over her face
and bedding from her right nostril. The Xray was shown to the MUFON
audience. It clearly showed a cylindrical radio-opaque object, perhaps
2-4 mm in length, with a helical pointed extension off each end and to
one side. Subsequent examination showed no object present and under
hypnosis it came out that Linda had been visited again by aliens and
the object removed.

In the meantime, Hopkins tried to identify Dan and Richard. Then he was
contacted by a woman who reported that she had been driving on a major
New York bridge (name withheld by author) on the evening of November
30, 1989, together with a few other cars, when her vehicle stopped,
together with all electrical activity. She then noticed an orange glow
and saw a glowing disk floating above and to the side of an apartment
building near the bridge. She saw a young woman and three small grey
creatures emerge from the side of the building, from an upper floor
about the level of the bridge, in fetal position, then extend before
lifting up into the disk along a blue beam. She also reported that
people in other stalled vehicles also saw the incident. After the disk
left, her car's dome light came on again and she was able to restart
her car and leave the area.

When asked to remember the event and count off the number of seconds it
took from the time the figures emerged from the side of the building
to the time they unfolded, the witness estimated x seconds (number
withheld by author).

In the meantime, Dan and Richard accosted Linda on the street, asking
her to come with them. When she refused, they took her by force to
another location and interrogated her. They seemed particularly
concerned about whether she could tell them whether the aliens had
known about the men witnessing the event. They also removed her shoes
and examined her feet, seeking confirmation that she was human, because
they thought aliens had no toes.

Under hypnosis, Linda was able to give Hopkins the license number of
one of the vehicles used in arresting her and part of the license
number of the other. From that and other investigation, Hopkins was
able to learn that they are not policemen, but US government agents.
The men further revealed to Linda that at the time of the incident,
their car had been moving and lost power, and that they had a third
party with them, a high public official who they were escorting, who
also witnessed the incident. They excused their own abduction of her as
a matter of "national security".

Hopkins reported that he has been able to obtain a photograph of one of
the two men, knows their identities and their agency, and knows the
identity of the high public official who was with them.

Hopkins further reported on some other visits to Linda and her family.
It turned out that her youngest son had been similarly abducted from
their apartment several months before the events of November 30, 1989.
And during a later overnight visit by a young family friend, Linda, her
husband, two sons, and their guest all awoke with severe nosebleeds
from their right nostrils.

One of the two men also provided a drawing, which closely resembled one
done by the witness on the bridge, and also resembled one done by the
son of Linda who had been abducted. One of the men also estimated that
the duration from emergence to unfolding was about x seconds (same
number reported by bridge witness).

Hopkins then produced Linda, who further elaborated on her experiences
and answered questions from the audience.

In subsequent remarks and remarks to the author in private, Budd Hopkins
said he hoped that more witnesses would come forward, and that the
public official would come forward, if not in public then at least to
privately contact him. He confirmed that he is withholding a number of
details that he will use to verify the authenticity of any witness
accounts he may receive.

Linda appears to be in her mid-30s, slender, attractive, about 5'6",
with long brown hair, an Italian-American Catholic whose boys go to
parochial schools.

Arch-debunker Phil Klass was very careful to get a good photograph of
Linda.

The author asked Hopkins whether he had taken precautions to make sure
the facts come out in case anything happens to him. Hopkins is
recovering from a recent operation, but says he is now feeling fine. He
assured the author he has thought about the problem and that was the
reason he decided to take the matter public at this time. He said he is
trying to get a more complete report published in the New York _Post_,
so readers should look for it there. If any mishap should befall
Hopkins, or any attempt be made to silence or discredit him, readers
should not fail to ask penetrating questions about the matter.

This case is significant because there have heretofore been few cases
of abductions witnessed by persons who were not among the abducted.
Hopkins expressed the opinion that the event may, at least in part,
have been staged for the benefit of the public figure who witnessed it.

The feelings of some in the audience may have later been summarized by
Shelley ..., one of the attendees, who said "God, I hope it's not Dan
Quayle!"

---

The author apologizes for any errors in the above report, taken from
memory after returning from the Symposium.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 04:41:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

I have heard of one incident in which it was reported that the target
of a MIB attempt at intimidation detained the MIB and had him/them
arrested. However, they were not prosecuted, but reported by the police
as being person(s) with a history of mental institutionalization, and
were released. This is, of course, a standard cover story for
government agents who get caught (some of which may in real life be
certifiable).

Anyone having confirming details might post them.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!aescherm
From: [e-mail] (Amy E Schermerhorn)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 04:42:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Lines: 5


I believe that alt.alien.visitors should be renamed to alt.john.winston
since about 50% of the messages are from him.

Anthony Clifton
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ukma!rutgers!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc3!slinke
From: [e-mail] (Steven Linke)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 06:28:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 21
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Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc3.ucsd.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
>process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation. As far as the crack
>pot last time, who said breathing can kill you, he was kidding or is in
>such personal terror that he made up that belief to guarantee he will not
>get near my hot tub...

Hot tub hyperventilation may not kill you outright, but I know at
least one individual who has lost a few brain cells.  :-)

My personal terror of Don's hot tub is overwhelming.  His guarantee
that I will never get near his tub pleases me to no end.

The "crack pot,"


--
Steve Linke
Salk Institute (Gene Expression Lab)
La Jolla, CA
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!sbil!wet!serpens!mikek
From: [e-mail] (Mike King)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 13:46:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Lines: 24

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Warren Burstein) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>    QUESTION: What would be the first step we should take in this rejuvenation
>    process?
>
>    PLEIADIANS: Oxygenation. Oxygenation flushes out what is unnecessary and
>    keeps the body full of light. Breathing is the main thing. There are
>    additives that are also oxygenators. There are many assistants to bring
>    about oxygenation [that you can buy].
>
>Don't forget beets.
>--
>/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
> |__/__/_/     FEELINGS are cascading over me!!!
> |warren@
>/ nysernet.org



Been reading Jitterbug Perfume?

Marc Power
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 06:47:15 GMT
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 10

Has anybody ever been visited by the MIB outside of the U.S.A.?

   //                          Though we may be the last in the world
 \X/ A proud Amiga User.       We feel like pioneers
   e  r  a  s  u  r  e         Telling hopes and fears
  - - |)epeche Mode - -        To one another.  - M.L. Gore

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ufo gifs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 07:35:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 23

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:


>A short time ago someone posted a ftp site that held space and
>ufo gifs. Could you repost this please.

>Hi

well it is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)  in
/pub/ufo_and_space_pics    !!

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]



--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 08:14:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
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In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

    You asked how two different types of beings can mate with one another. The
    answer is very carefully.

Porcupines from space!  Grey ones.
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     --``I love KATRINKA because she drives a PONTIAC. We're
 |warren@      going away now. I fed the cat. - Zippy''
/ nysernet.org
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 13:55:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7077 sci.skeptic:27261

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

| Dear Thad Floryan:  Could you be any chance be related to my friend
| Thaddeus Floryan not deceased. He was a great investigator of UFOs and
| retired military officier.

Yes, he was my father who died June 28, 1981.  Additional info has been sent
to you via email.

Interesting; I called my Mom who recalled that you had stopped by some 15
years or so ago inquiring about some "metal from a flying saucer." Since
neither she nor I know anything about it, nothing will be gained by any
attempt to pursue that matter further.

Since it's not clear you know how to navigate the Portal system considering
the problems you're apparently having posting to Usenet, I strongly suggest
you send email to "cs" (Customer Service) at Portal and/or join the Portal
Partners program (or whatever it's called) for help with posting, email, ftp
and telnet services.

BTW, I don't use Portal all that much the past 3 or 4 years except for some
computer user group activities, and the ONLY reason I "stumbled" upon this
thread is because I've archiving this and several other newsgroups for a
friend who's on vacation this month, but I will post a followup article on my
thoughts regarding the UFO and "space alien" phenomena which some may find
interesting (esp. the apparent "abduction" case [mine]).

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 14:04:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <qx#mr-#[e-mail]> <y7#[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 15

In article <y7#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:

| [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
| ...
|
| >  (Just, curious, does anyone know what recipies the greys use on *us*?) :)
|
| I have one of their cookbooks, but have only been able to translate the title
:
| _To_Serve_Man_.  :-)

Hah!

That's the title and theme of one of Rod Serling's episodes for his classic
show "The Twilight Zone."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 14:00:50 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 224
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7079 sci.skeptic:27265

Seems some people overlooked the smilies ":-)" in my article about the
Lord Capt. Yahweh and his horny band of Zeta Reticulan exobiologists
who transformed some extant creatures into their personal playthings!  :-)

Seriously, though, there are sufficient unexplained mysteries in ancient
writings AND other artifacts, both ancient and recent, which suggest that a
lot has transpired over the years about which we'll probably never fully
understand.

That reference I quoted from the Q'uran (formerly known as the Koran) is
just one of many that have intrigued me over the years: a very explicit
50,000 years and my oblique interpretation as an "effect" of time dilation.

Just suppose "someone" visited an earlier earth and performed experiments.
Another 100,000 year round trip to return to earth to observe the results
"could" be the incidents related in several ancient documents.  This is
something akin to the story in "2001: A Space Odyssey", and is something
"interesting" upon which to speculate.  But I digress.

John Winston mentioned he had met my father who John claims was a "UFO"
researcher.  I cannot speak for either gentlemen, but it was I who introduced
Jacques Valee' to my Dad because of an apparent mutual interest in UFOs.

I met Jacques professionally when he was a staff researcher at the Institute
For the Future (IFF), a Menlo Park CA "think tank."  IFF was utilizing my
company's computers for online worldwide teleconferencing back in the early
1970s.  That same system, NotePAD, was also used to great effect during the
Chernobyl Crisis and is still in use today at my site on a facilities-
management type of arrangement via Tymnet (which itself is interesting,
because I was back at Tymshare in the early days, and my other company at
which I'm VP Engineering is one which produces specialized data processing
computers for TelCo and government clients).

As such, we lunched several times, and I learned he was an Astronomer and
a mathematician.  My background is computational linguistics, compiler theory,
numerical analysis, communication theory, hardware design, microwave IC fab,
etc. with an intense interest in astronomy.  Thus, we had a common ground and
I also learned that Jacques and Dr. Hynek participated in the computerization
of the unique twin-dome observatory at the school where I did some undergrad
studies: New Mexico State University, which also hosts (hosted?) Dr. Clyde
Tombaugh (the discoverer of Pluto) as Professor Emeritus.

I also learned that Jacques authored some v-e-r-y interesting books about
the "UFO Phenomenon" and, of course, I read them, and I share his feelings
and interpretations about the situation.

Interestingly, Jacques and I participated in one "field trip" arranged by
my Dad which attempted to locate a "siting" in the Santa Cruz mountains.
Nothing was found, discovered, revealed or uncovered during that trip.

I believe the reason Jacques consented to the trip was because of my Dad's
background.  As John Winston noted, my Dad was an ex-Army officer; he was also
ex-CIA, and participated in some "interesting" activities during WWII, among
which was "Antwerp X" (for which he received the highest commendations from
Belgium for zapping the V-1 buzzbombs) and the "liberation" of the Von Braun
German rocket team to the USA.

In later years my Dad was strategically involved with the Redstone missile
program (a mod of which carried the first US satellite, Explorer I, into orbit
on Jan 31, 1958) and commanded BOTH the US nuclear missile batallions (40th
and 46th Field Artillery Groups) in Europe during the early 1960s (which also
were Redstone-origined).  As such, both my Dad and I have seen a lot of
interesting things over the years, from USA satellite launches, to
anti-missile-missile tests, you name it.

So, do I "believe" in UFOs?

Let's say I'm still cogitating that answer due to four experiences which
I'll share with you.  As a summary answer, I'll state now that there is
definitely "something" that bears further open-minded study and research.

First experience was during 1957 in San Antonio, Texas, at Fort Sam Houston,
the HQ of the 4th Army.  Saturday night, approx. 11pm, I was building some
plastic rocket models and the radio was tuned to a local rock station (yeah,
Elvis was BIG that year! :-) when all of a sudden a UFO alert was broadcast
on the station.  Don't ask me why, but I just happened to look up and out
the window and saw "something" circular and extremely dark brown that was
just about to pass over the house.

At this same moment, there was intense static on the radio drowning out all
reception; this static lasted about 5 seconds and presumably was caused by the
object as it passed over and away.  Believe me, I was scared shitless (only 11
years old at the time).  All that week there were UFO sightings reported on
the front pages of the San Antonio newspapers.

Second experience was approx. 1964 (my records are "somewhere" out in my
garage) in El Paso TX (actually Fort Bliss, Army Air Defense Command HQ and
home to a SAC base (at the other end of town), and White Sands Missile Range
about 50 miles to the north).  For some reason, approx 1:45am I awoke, arose
from bed, and peered out the window to see a brilliant white oblong-shaped
object whose frontal 10% was brilliantly red moving east to west about 400
yards away and about 100 yards up before it left my view.

Those distances were precise due to the known height of the trees AND the fact
it passed in front of some homes that were about 500 yards away; "in front of"
because of the way the object illuminated the houses.  Sheesh, scared shitless
again.

My sighting was the first that week (I believe this was a Sunday); all week
long afterwards similar objects were reported in the El Paso Times and ALL
descriptions of the object by others were the same [ I still have those
clippings and my original report in my files ].

Third episode, approx. 1967 in Silicon Valley CA.  I was working for the
Electronic Defense Labs, and my Dad was working for Lockheed Missiles and
Space Company.  I was returning home about 9pm and turned to face the street
to see my house key when I noticed a strange stationary aerial light out in the
distance.  Because of my interest in astronomy, I often observe the skies and
I have a "feel" for when things aren't as they should be; this was such a
case.  And the conditions were PERFECT for data collection.

First thing was the ol' binoculars.  Holy Shit.  A classic "UFO": half dome
with fluted edges.  And it was just below the cloud layer (totally overcast
that night), and a fragment of cloud would occasionally "touch" and obscure
portions of the object.

Quick calls to Moffet Field Naval Air Station, US Weather Bureau, San Jose
Airport, etc.  confirmed the cloud layer was at 2400 feet.  Perfect; so we
know how high the object was.  Next step: measure direction and angular
elevation [details of all this are in my notes].  Plotting onto a topo map put
the object DIRECTLY between the main hangar at Moffett NAS and the combined
LMSC/Air Force Satellite Test Center (now known as Onizuka Air Force Base;
which is THE central command for all US spy satellites and, at one time, the
NUMBER ONE military target in the USA).

And for those who don't know, Moffett NAS is also the home of NASA's Ames
Research Center.  Sheesh.  That object was perfectly stationary, did NOT move
(though the flanking clouds obviously were moving), and it remained there for
at least 30 minutes.  My neighbors and many others whom I called all saw the
object and confirmed its existence and appearance (light yellow glow); calls
to the NAS revealed nothing.

Given my measurements of the vertical and lateral angular displacements,
the known height (of the cloud layer), and the known location (simple trig :-)
I was able to calculate the size of the object.  I'm writing this from memory
but it was about 30-40 feet at its widest (and it was about 5 miles away).

The last (and fourth) episode is the one that really has me wondering.  It
was late 1972 or early 1973 (would have to check my old expense reports at
the office for Air Cal expenses for the exact date), but I was regularly
visiting a client site in San Juan Capistrano CA for work I was doing for
light water reactor vessel testing (which later was used for stress analysis
on the Golden Gate Bridge).  Usually I would make the trip alone, get the
work done, fly back.  That day a colleague accompanied me because he wanted
to use some of my stuff in another project for scanning electron microscopes.

Having made the trip scores of times, I knew precisely how long the travel
time by air and by car from John Wayne airport down I-5 to San Juan Capistrano
would take in both directions.  With a 9pm flight from Orange County airport
back to San Jose, we had plenty of time when we finished dinner and left the
Franciscan Restaurant at 8pm; I figured 20-25 minutes to the airport.

As we're headed north on I-5 to the airport, we were discussing the events
of the day, and then I learned my colleague was reared in that area, so he
was pointing out interesting sights and we had a jolly good time joking about
all the slow drivers I was passing (I learned to drive in Europe on ice-covered
autobahns with no chains and no speed limits, so I do, uh, drive rapidly! :-)

Now remember I had made this joourney at least 30 times before, and my
colleague "knew" the area.  We were headed north on I-5 to reach the John
Wayne airport.  Yet, all of a sudden, we were in the middle of who-knows-where
and there were NO other cars in the vicinity.

You talk about confusion; I hit the brakes.  Sheesh.  Then suddenly my friend
said, "I know where we are", and I followed his directions, and we arrive at
the damned airport just as our flight, the last of the day, was taking off
at 9:05pm.  Goddamn, talk about panic.  I also neglected to mention that my
colleague was sporting a cast due to a broken foot experienced a week earlier
when he slipped on ice at Lake Tahoe.

In any event, with the help of Air Cal, we managed to get a flight out of LAX
arriving at San Francisco Int'l at midnight (and yeah, with my car at the San
Jose Airport) (and the story of my attempts to return the rental car at LAX,
finally driving backwards into the #^%$%# return area and popping the tires on
the wrong-way spikes because the car return area was "just outside" the loop,
doesn't belong here :-)

BUT, on that flight, after we had caught our breaths after running to catch
THAT late flight which we almost missed, too, and after one beer, I *FINALLY*
looked at my watch and noticed it had stopped.  I asked my friend the time
and his watch had stopped at precisely the same time.  My watch was an old
Timex electric motor model, and my friend's was a windup something or other.
The time on BOTH watches was 8:55pm; the actual time was about 11:30pm.

Later, the next day, we determined we had somehow "lost" 30 minutes.  That was
the only way to account for our missing the flight from Orange County.  And
how the hell we ended up on that strange road with NO recollection how we
got there when "just a moment earlier" we were on I-5, we'll never know, and
that's a mystery to both of us to this day.

There is another aspect of this last event that interests me: I occasionally
have a dream in which I seem to be rising up in the air over that freeway as
we were heading north.  I look down and see cars travelling on the freeway at
what appears to be a mile beneath us; that's it.  This is inexplicable to me,
and is what I call my "abduction case."

So, these are "my" cases.  And why I attempt to keep an open-mind and attempt
to correlate these events with others.

I don't have any answers.  Perhaps there IS another lifeform on this planet.
If so, it "may" be indigenous, and it might not.  Perhaps it could be to us
as we are to the fish we catch (and throw back) into the water.  Who knows?

I research many things on behalf of my employer and on behalf of my clients.
Sometimes I get sidetracked and onto the trail of something new and completely
different.  One such trail led me to study some ancient documents and some
religious material, which is why my familiarity with the Bible, Q'uran, and
others (and why I have them online, too).

Many passages in the Bible have correspondences in, say, the Q'uran.  And
there are many differences, too.  In the Q'uran, for example, we find the jinn
who were created from fire before humans were created from the black muds of
the earth.  In both the Bible and the Q'uran we find angels.  Studying the
Q'uran, one MUST ponder; and yet we find explicit details such as the 50,000
year measure of one day, and the "periods" of creation; in the Bible there is
seldom such accurate depiction of time passage and it refers to the "days" of
creation.

Many mysteries.

These are some of my thoughts and experiences.  Hope you enjoyed reading
them as much as I did finally putting them down in writing.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 15:09:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Amy E Schermerhorn) writes:
>
>I believe that alt.alien.visitors should be renamed to alt.john.winston
>since about 50% of the messages are from him.
>

If you read your news with 'rn' or 'trn' it is pretty easy to eliminate
these posts (not from the net - just so you don't see them).  While you
are reading an article in alt.alien.visitors, type control-K (k with
the control key held down).  You should then be editing the
alt.alien.visitors kill file in your favorite editor.

Once you are there, type in this line:

/John_-_Winston/h:j

exactly as shown.  Be sure that there is a blank line under it in the file.

This will eliminate any posting that has the characters "John_-_Winston"
anywhere in the header of the article.  Save the kill file and exit from
the editor.  The next time you start to read alt.alien.visitors, the
newsreader will first scan all of the article's headers and junk the
ones that match your kill-file entry.  Of course you can do this for
anyone that you find tiresome.  This is not intended to single John
out for exclusion.  He does post a lot of articles, but at least most
of them are pretty short.
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!viking.enet.dec.com!ed_eck
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 16:12:43 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10731 alt.alien.visitors:7081 sci.skeptic:27267


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
>process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation.




I'd call it "Crackpots in crock pots."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!bolivia!peterson
From: [e-mail] (BAD BULL)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Unanswered Question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 16:13:32 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (BAD BULL)
Organization: SSC
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: bolivia.ssc.gov


  One gentleman posted a question earlier that no one, not even John_Winston, has addressed. That is what are some good microwave gray recipes for those of us who spent more time on this network than we spend in the kitchen? Well I am proud to announce the introduction of some new time saving products. GrayBurger Helper and Shake-n-Gray. Thats right now you can defrost your grays in the microwave, shake, bake, and have a meal ready for your family in less than 30 minutes. No Mess, No Fuss.

   Finally the major companies are recognizing this trend of eating healthy, eating Grays trend. Soon PizzaHut, TacoBell and Mcdonalds will be introducing thier own dishes.
So don't be suprised the next time you are ordering a meal to hear, " Would you like some Grays with That?"

   I Hope this has been Helpful.


  Bad Bull Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
"Just cause your not Paranoid, Doesn't mean they aren't after you" -Nirvana
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!triton.unm.edu!egates
From: [e-mail] (EL GATES)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 17:33:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 51

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>This is a report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
>in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.

Wish I had known about the meeting I would have liked to have gone,
it would have been fun!

>
>In his talk on abductions July 11, Budd Hopkins reported on the case of
>Linda, whose abduction has been confirmed by several witnesses. The
>following is a synopsis of his report:
>
>---
 [stuff deleted]

>In the meantime, Linda developed discomfort in her right nostril and
>and bedding from her right nostril. The Xray was shown to the MUFON
>audience. It clearly showed a cylindrical radio-opaque object, perhaps
>2-4 mm in length, with a helical pointed extension off each end and to
>one side. Subsequent examination showed no object present and under
>hypnosis it came out that Linda had been visited again by aliens and
>the object removed.

I want to know how you could determine an object as radio-opaque from
an X-ray.  All an X-ray tells you is what is X-ray-opaque (like bone,
metal, but not skin or flesh)


>
[more stuff deleted]

>recovering from a recent operation, but says he is now feeling fine. He
>assured the author he has thought about the problem and that was the
>reason he decided to take the matter public at this time. He said he is
>trying to get a more complete report published in the New York _Post_,
>so readers should look for it there. If any mishap should befall
>Hopkins, or any attempt be made to silence or discredit him, readers
>should not fail to ask penetrating questions about the matter.

ah, the New York _Post_.  I can think of many more reputable newpapers,
such as _The New York Times_ to print articles in.  Of course the
NY Times would not be foolish enough to publish a story as fantastic
(and weird and possibly (or probably) not true).  Also, Mr. Hopkins
seems to be a little paranoid if he thinks people are out to
silence him.  Though I think there is nothing wrong with trying
to discredit him, it might even turn out that his methods are far
from scientific or valid and anything should be investigated in a
scientific, logical manner. (I am not criticizing his methods since
I have no idea how he carries out his investigations, I've just noted
that many investigators use too mush speculation and not enough facts
or evidence in their investigations).
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!rutgers!ub!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 16:15:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7084 sci.skeptic:27274

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> >Dear Tom and VU208:
> >Sometimes the flames are better than my material.  My comlements to you.
> >You asked in jest how are we brought on earth planet and then mention
> >Adam and Eve.  The story of Adam ane Eve is about two people but at a deeper
> >level it is the story of the Adamic race (a highly evolved spiritual race
> >of people) who came to earth and mated with the more fleshly animal type
> >of being (who were fair to look upon) and they produced the race that we
> >are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by
> >Eve in the story.
> >John Winston.
>
        Oh, God, not that Adamic Races bullshit again-- now we're going to
get reams of Madame Blavatsky thrown at us. (And since a good chunk of THAT
stuf was plagiaraized from Ignatius Donnelly, it's not even ORIGINAL
ranting.)

        And when ANYone starts going on with mystical pronouncements on race,
WATCH OUT.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!rutgers!ub!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 16:11:36 GMT
References: <cw#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7085 sci.skeptic:27275

[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> >>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
> >>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
> >>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
> >>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
> >
>
> John, can you please provide even the *slightest* evidence that this is
> true, that "human parthenogenesis" does in fact occur? Preferably a
> solid medical source, like "Journal of the American Medical Society"
> or "Lancet," and not the "Weekly World News."
>
> If you are right, just *think* of all the people unnecessarily forced
> into shotgun weddings!
        Or, as I pointed out, it'd certainly eliminate the emotional trauma
of the offspring. After all, if your mother kept telling you things like,
"God didn't give you to me to lay around and watch TV," or "You're the
Messiah, of COURSE you can't go to the prom," or "When are you going to turn
off that MTV and start redeeming the Chosen People?" wouldn't you get a
little edgy after a while?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!rutgers!ub!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 16:13:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7086 sci.skeptic:27276

[e-mail] (R. Kym Horsell) writes:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes
> >technically-advanced visitors would be perceived as "gods."  Was it not Ray
> >Bradbury who commented "advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
>
> No, that was A C Clarke.
>
> -kym

        Further clarification: Arthur C. Clarke, noted Brit SF author, who
first proposed the idea of communications satellites in geosynchronous orbit.
Best known for his novels _Rendezvous with Rama_, _Childhood's End_, and his
co-authorship (with Stanley Kubrick, one of my heroes) of the screenplay for
_2001: A Space Odyessey_.

        Currently living in Sri Lanka.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!ukma!rutgers!ub!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Flying Saucers!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 16:19:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7087 alt.paranormal:5392

[e-mail] writes:

> Ah yes.  Thank you all.  Flying saucers and I are 45 this year.
> Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
>
> --
Ed, we've been wondering about you for along time. And believe me, superior
intelligence rarely entered our consideration.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <![e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 17:40:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>   <qx#mr-#[e-mail]> <y7#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 29

[e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:

>In article <y7#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:

>| [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>| ...
>|
>| >  (Just, curious, does anyone know what recipies the greys use on *us*?) :)
>|
>| I have one of their cookbooks, but have only been able to translate the title
>:
>| _To_Serve_Man_.  :-)

>Hah!

>That's the title and theme of one of Rod Serling's episodes for his classic
>show "The Twilight Zone."

It was originally a short story written by Damon Knight in the 50s.

BTW, you get a gold star for being the first to catch the reference. :-)
--

Anson Kennedy                                                   [e-mail]
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

"If you don't watch the violence,    \           "If I had been the Virgin Mary,
you'll never get desensitized to it."  \                I would have said 'No.'"
-Bart Simpson                            \  -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!cust_ts
From: [e-mail] (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Jul 92 12:24:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7089 sci.skeptic:27280

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ken Arromdee) writes:
[lots of unbelievable stuff deleted]

>also have similar genes.  How can a species that originated separately from
>earthlings have similar genes?

Furthermore, lots of 'earthlings' have similar genes, but can't have
offsprings.
--
-Tero Sand
  EMail: [e-mail]     Snail mail: Auroran Sairaala os. 6-1
  (if that doesn't work, try                    Nordenskioldinkatu 20
   [e-mail])                  00250 Helsinki 25, Finland
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 19:48:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail].c
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7090 sci.skeptic:27283
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.

i>In article <[e-mail]> arromdee@jyusenkyou
cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>[lots of unbelievable stuff deleted]
>
>>also have similar genes.  How can a species that originated separately
rom
>>earthlings have similar genes?
>
I don't see why not, it's just a little unlikely.

Big Al.  A little unlikely himself.
d
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bill Moore ?
Keywords: Disinformation Man
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 20:27:47 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Hello anybody :


Does anyone know if the Bill Moore that posts here is the same
Bill(Author/Doubleagent)Moore that helped release the MJ-12 Docs?
His mail keeps bouncing back.Just curious...........

Rod

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 20:37:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
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[e-mail]  writes:
> Has anybody ever been visited by the MIB outside of the U.S.A.?
>
>    //                          Though we may be the last in the world
>  \X/ A proud Amiga User.       We feel like pioneers
>    e  r  a  s  u  r  e         Telling hopes and fears
>   - - |)epeche Mode - -        To one another.  - M.L. Gore
>
> ;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
> ;E-mail: [e-mail]
> ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
To: Titanium Knight

        If you trust such t.v. shows as "Sightings" there is some evidence
        of MIB's in Canada and Russia.  The MIB's apparently look very
        similar no matter where they are located.  This seems to possibly
        suggest a massive multi government coverup on UFO's.
        Whatcha think??

                                        Joseph A. Citro III
                                        [e-mail]


Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath
From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 21:49:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
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Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes in part:
|> This is a report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
|> in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.
Highlights?  A summary of ole Budd Hopkins' new book?  I hope you are
joking.

I guess the old fantasies were wearing a bit thin, so he's cooked up
another elaborate (and not even entertaining) story.

I sure hope you didn't believe all this!

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!bolivia!peterson
From: [e-mail] (BBB)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien Santa?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 22:03:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (BBB)
Organization: SSC
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Nntp-Posting-Host: bolivia.ssc.gov


   I read in a recent publication that the Santa Clause myth started with a UFO
sighting one Christmas eve in the mid 1800s. The story of the jolly fatman was
made up to keep the witnesses for being persecuted. But parts of the story betray
the origin. The sleigh and the deer discribe a fleet of craft flying in
formation. The Ho Ho Ho was the sound that these craft made as they made their
way across the sky. These aliens most likely even landed on a roof where they
could have easily slid down a chimney.


BBB
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Summary: greys and chickens(again)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 22:38:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Nick Vargish) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> >The human race has a self protection
> >system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
>
> The more this thing is re-posted and re-quoted, the less apealing I
> find the idea of being "killed just like [a] chicken."

It could be he's talking about walkins(tm). A male walkin
impregnating a female human.
>
> Does this have something to do with food for the Greys?

Greys just taste like chicken, not that they have plans to
kill off all the males on earth like chickens.
I couldn't imagine all the males on earth running around like
chickens with their heads cut off.
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 22:54:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> (Joe Citro III) writes:
> > Men in black have been threatening the witnesses!!  These
> > Men in black or MIB's are being reported by witnesses throughout the
> > world (i.e. Canada and Russia), as well as here in the U.S.
>
> MIB have been reported by UFO followers for at LEAST ten years.  About that

25 years at least.

> time I came across a hard-core UFO magazine, in which the hot theory was that
> they were FBI agents, threatening witnesses to keep them quiet as part of an
> extensive government coverup.  Glad to see they're still around.


They always showed up in brand-new looking suits. The suits were
always dated(30's style). the black sedan is always dated, but new
looking. They always look oriental. they always travelled in three's.
They are always following and harrassing UFO loudmouths. Many think
they are aliens.
Sources of info: various books on the subject when I was an interested
ufo buff in the late sixties to mid-seventies(mostly stuff by John Keel).

And alt.alien.visitors is the most fun group I have ever come
across:-) Most people even have a sense of humor.

barry--
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 23:06:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Drew Lawson) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> >are today (humans not man). The fleshly type of being was represented by
> >Eve in the story.
> >John Winston.
>
[stuff deleted about adam and eve]
> I see you've read _Chariots of the Gods_, too.  I found that concept
> ("sons of god" and "daughters of men") intriguing when I was 12.  I
> hadn't thought about it for years.
>
> Thanks for the memory.
>
> (Now, where's that copy of _Pyrimid Power_)

Hey, remember when people would buy those little pyramid grids
and sleep with the grids either under the pillow or the bed?
Now days we have super aytinal from walgreens(mind-enhancing
vitamins).
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Unanswered Question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 23:40:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (BAD BULL) writes:

[i deleted 1 line and half your article vanished]

>    Finally the major companies are recognizing this trend of eating healthy, eating Grays trend. Soon PizzaHut, TacoBell and Mcdonalds will be introducing thier own dishes.

I thought McDonalds was using Greys meat in their chicken McNuggets.
when I asked about this at several sites, I was given the brush for
the most part. Later I found myself being followed by three ceatures
dressed similar to the Hamburgler driving a black out-dated volkswagon.
I got frightened and quit asking. I haven't seen the vw since.
I think this has some connection with the lost continent of MU. Could
Mr. Wilson provide some answers?

barry--
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 00:35:48 GMT
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In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (EL GATES) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>This is a report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
>>in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.
>
>Wish I had known about the meeting I would have liked to have gone,
>it would have been fun!

Join MUFON. The address is 103 Oldtowne Rd, Seguin, TX 78155.

>>
>>In his talk on abductions July 11, Budd Hopkins reported on the case of
>>Linda, whose abduction has been confirmed by several witnesses. The
>>following is a synopsis of his report:
>>
>The Xray was shown to the MUFON
>>audience. It clearly showed a cylindrical radio-opaque object
>
>I want to know how you could determine an object as radio-opaque from
>an X-ray.  All an X-ray tells you is what is X-ray-opaque (like bone,
>metal, but not skin or flesh)
>

Radiologists use the term "radio-opaque" to mean "X-ray-opaque". The
point is important because previously discovered implants have not been
radio-opaque, but composed of things like silicone, with trace metals,
that do not show up well in X-rays.

>>He said he is
>>trying to get a more complete report published in the New York _Post_,
>>so readers should look for it there. If any mishap should befall
>>Hopkins, or any attempt be made to silence or discredit him, readers
>>should not fail to ask penetrating questions about the matter.
>
>ah, the New York _Post_.  I can think of many more reputable newpapers,
>such as _The New York Times_ to print articles in.  Of course the
>NY Times would not be foolish enough to publish a story as fantastic
>(and weird and possibly (or probably) not true).  Also, Mr. Hopkins
>seems to be a little paranoid if he thinks people are out to
>silence him.  Though I think there is nothing wrong with trying
>to discredit him, it might even turn out that his methods are far
>from scientific or valid and anything should be investigated in a
>scientific, logical manner. (I am not criticizing his methods since
>I have no idea how he carries out his investigations, I've just noted
>that many investigators use too mush speculation and not enough facts
>or evidence in their investigations).

Many abduction investigators, not so much Hopkins, have been criticized
because after they see a pattern in the first few cases they investigate,
they try to fit all other cases into the same mold, even when the
evidence deviates from it. One way this happens is that investigators
fasten on details, which they usually withhold from public disclosure,
that they use as validation criteria in subsequent cases, to exclude
spurious reports that may have been conditioned by public discussion of
the subject. The trouble with doing that is that they then tend to look
for those features and to find them whether they are present or not.

There is also the criticism that hypnosis is used too readily in such
investigations, thereby compromising their scientific validity.
Abduction investigators should refrain from resorting to hypnosis until
after they exhaust other, more conventional alternatives for helping
the subjects recall their experiences.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!taco!hes
From: [e-mail] (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 00:14:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: North Carolina State University Computing Center
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
> ...  Arthur C. Clarke, noted Brit SF author, who
>first proposed the idea of communications satellites in geosynchronous orbit.
>Best known for his novels _Rendezvous with Rama_, _Childhood's End_, and his
>co-authorship (with Stanley Kubrick, one of my heroes) of the screenplay for
>_2001: A Space Odyessey_.

  Considering the content of these news.groups, perhaps one should
remember his Tales from the White Hart?

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 00:44:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Robert McGrath) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes in part:
>|> This is a report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
>|> in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.
>Highlights?  A summary of ole Budd Hopkins' new book?  I hope you are
>joking.
>
>I guess the old fantasies were wearing a bit thin, so he's cooked up
>another elaborate (and not even entertaining) story.
>
>I sure hope you didn't believe all this!

I don't believe that 2 + 2 = 4, if by belief you mean having a emotional
attachment to a proposition.

However, Hopkins presentation was nothing if not entertaining. You had to
have been there.

What are you going to say if that "public official" steps forward and
confirms the incident?

Maybe you better check your own belief system. Sounds like you might not
be ready for a shock.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 01:34:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Brick: I am real and have been taught how to send and receive
telepathic messages.  Even my dog is telpathic. Open minded people
can be shown how to be telepathic with just a little bit of instruction.
While I was a civilian electronics instructor at Treasure Island during
spare time I would show students how to send and receive messages and
they would locate one another while on the base when one would send the
message that they wanted to locate one another.  I do know people
inside of Mt. Shasta.  One is named Phylos and he inspired the writing
of a book called A Dweller of Two Planets by Oliver in the 1880 so that
makes him pretty old.  The book is a classic and can still be obtained
in the Calif. library system. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 01:46:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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Dear Drew: It off that you would mention the book Chariots of the
Gods because that is one of the books that was recommended by the
space person who went with Shirley McClain's friend in South
America.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 01:49:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><1992Jul12.190909.1904
 [e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <c_#[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Gisle:
You have me pretty well figured out.  I would recommend that
anyone who puts some truth of this net seal their aura first.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 01:52:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7105 sci.skeptic:27302

Dear Warren: I see you were smart enough to pick up on the pun of
carefully.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 00:13:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David M. Schiff) writes:
> furthermore,
>     I-- ------ ---- -- - ------
>     a-- ---- --- ---- -- - ---- r---
>     --------v l-----!

Obviously the Earth changes involve alphabetical dropout.
Hopefully the next letter to go will be "U."

--
 //=====================================================================\\
|| Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744  U.S.A. Earth ||
|| Anthropologist, Writer, Editor, Earth Native       [e-mail] ||
|| * Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance.  All Rights Reserved. * ||
 \\=====================================================================//
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 01:55:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Thad: You have me at a disadvantage on Tales From the White Hart.
Would you pontificate on that?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 02:02:36 GMT
References: <cw#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Revpk: One of the sources for imformation about having children
with the services of a man is in the Occult type book called Finding
the Third Eye.  This book got a friend of mine kicked out of the
Big C.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 02:06:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7109 sci.skeptic:27306

Dear Revpk: Shame on you for thirty minutes for saying a discouraging
word about M. Blav.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 17:30:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7110 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1926

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
.... re: ramjets ...
> acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
> So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
> would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!

> Sam Silverstein
> UW-Madison Dept. of Physics

.... but also bear in mind that as the ship approaches relativistic
speeds and length contraction starts to be appreciable, the apparent
density of particles in space will increase.  So a ramjet gets more
efficient, the faster it goes.

Jason
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 06:23:49 GMT
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Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Several correspondents questioned the measurements related in my article
containing four personal "cases" which I posted earlier today.

Perhaps I assumed too much of the readership of this newsgroup?  (And you
know what Benny Hill used to say about the word ``assume''!  :-)

Would you have questioned an assertion the battery stack in my flashlight
measured 6.327 Volts DC?  Would you have doubted the 0.1921 Ohm resistance
of my audio system's speaker wires?  Unlikely; you would have "assumed" I
used a calibrated DVM or a Wheatstone bridge for those measurements.

Given that OBSERVATIONAL ANECDOTES are not so easily quantified, I'll explain
the techniques I used to derive the quantities I stated.  And a footnote to
this article will illustrate a major problem with even first-hand reporting.

One correspondent queried:

    In article <[e-mail]> you write:
    >[...] a brilliant white oblong-shaped
    >[...] about 100 yards up before it left my view.
    >Those distances were precise due to the known height of the trees

    100 yard-tall trees?

I thought the answer was obvious: shadows, and their circumscribed paths.

Even during the excitement and terror of my sighting, I noted the obvious:
the illumination of the FRONTS of the 500-yard distant houses, the shadows
cast on the streets, lawns, and against other landmarks.  Remembering those,
I was easily able to measure the physical realities the following day and
later calculate the altitude and distance.

I'm willing to concede my remembrances could be off by as much as 50%, but this
concession doesn't significantly alter the facts as I originally related them.

Simple trigonometry is all that's required to, for example, "measure" the
height of a tree.  Consider (with apologies to crappy ASCII graphics):


                          #   ____________
                        /###            ^
                       /#####           |
                      /{#####)          |
                     /(#######)         |
                    /(#########)
                   /  (#######)         h
                  /      | |
                 /       | |            |
                /        | |            |
               /  T      | |            |
______________/__________|_|____________v_
              |           |
              |<--- d --->|

The height of the tree, h, can be derived from the angle T and the distance d.

Given I was able to note multiple shadows from multiple trees each instant,
trigonometry again is used to "position" a luminiscent, slowly-moving aerial
object.

Granted, the object clearly was NOT a point-source, which is why I'm willing
to concede a 50% margin of error in my shadow-cast calculations.  This means
the object's position ranged from 400 to 450 yards distant and its altitude
was between 100 and 200 yards.

"Hey, Thad, 400 to 450 is NOT a 50% variation."  True. The object could NOT
have been further than 500 yards because its light illuminated the front of
houses 500 yards distant.  And it could not have been closer than 400 yards
because of intervening trees whose distance was also known.  The greatest
error would be my locating the simultaneously cast shadows, and THAT's the
50% I'll concede for the altitude calcs.

Needless to say, the sumbitch WAS close!  :-)

As regards the Moffett NAS/LMSC/AFSTC sighting, a correspondent wrote:

    >I'm writing this from memory
    >but it was about 30-40 feet at its widest (and it was about 5 miles
    >away).

    Which means the object subtended about 0.09 degrees.  How were you
    able to measure this angle with just binoculars, on a cloudy night?

You mean to say every home doesn't have a theodolite?  :-)

OK, I'll admit I have equipment at my disposal that even well-equipped
government labs would envy.

Can anyone forget my classic fix to a Sun computer optical mouse as reported
in comp.sys.sun.hardware?  Hey, I just put on my IR viewer and adjusted the
IR (infra-red) detection array; saved me $130 (which a new mouse would have
cost! :-)

To clarify: I reported using the binoculars to initially verify that something
"strange" was in the airspace above a sensitive government area.  Remember I
stated the object was visible for AT LEAST 30 minutes; I had time to call
several government agencies for cloud conditions, call friends and neighbors
and have them witness the sighting, erect and calibrate my theodolite, plot
the data onto a topographical map, and view an astonishing (to me) sight.

The "cloudy night" was what made data collection possible; the ceiling was
known to be 2400 feet, and the object was occasionally occluded by the layer,
thus establishing its altitude!  These conditions were IDEAL.

Because someone asked, I don't have any photos; I don't have any camera or
film capable of night photography.  Hey, it's just a small Vivitar that I
use for picnics, etc.!  :-)

As of ten minutes ago, no additional email has arrived, so I trust this
single followup answers all pending questions and establishes my veracity.

Feel welcome to continue this discussion publicly; email storage costs me $$$.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]

---------- footnote

As promised, a true anecdote illustrating a "problem" with first-hand
reporting, even by expert witnesses.

I previously stated my intense interest in observational and theoretical
astronomy.  That interest fuels an insatiable desire to keep abreast of
all that occurs, even in disciplines beyond my ken.  However this anecdote
is "close to home."

The specific details are on record; my paraphrased restatement is only to
illustrate the point.  Back about 10 years ago a team of 50 professional
astronomers gatherered in Florida to view a known periodic meteor shower
(perhaps it was the Orionids, I'd have to peruse my files).  All participants
KNEW the pertinent details: expected time, alt/azimuth, direction of travel,
duration of the shower, frequency, etc.  All observers were stationed
stategically at the proper time, fully expecting to view a common, natural
phenomenon, and later prepare a cohesive report.

Yet, EVERY SINGLE WRITTEN REPORT was different, in details such as color,
duration, etc.

These people were NOT taken by surprise.  They KNEW what they expected to
see.  Yet they could NOT AGREE on the specifics.  And these people were all
professional astronomers.

Interesting, to say the least!  :-)

Please keep this in mind when critiquing reports of ANY observed phenomena,
whether it be a traffic accident, an improperly-called STRIKE (in baseball),
or even a UFO report, when the observers ARE taken by surprise and subject
to emotional trauma and/or stress.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!mips!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 07:13:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
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Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>Several correspondents questioned the measurements related in my article
>containing four personal "cases" which I posted earlier today.
>
>Perhaps I assumed too much of the readership of this newsgroup?  (And you
>know what Benny Hill used to say about the word ``assume''!  :-)
>
>Would you have questioned an assertion the battery stack in my flashlight
>measured 6.327 Volts DC?  Would you have doubted the 0.1921 Ohm resistance
>of my audio system's speaker wires?  Unlikely; you would have "assumed" I
>used a calibrated DVM or a Wheatstone bridge for those measurements.

I most likely would've assumed that we were dealing with someone who accepted
numbers off a digital instrument as accurate (and precise) simply because they
were produced by a digital instrument.  In particular, I would've doubted that
you'd used appropriate techniques to ensure that the contact resistance between
your ohmmeter and your speaker wires was < .0001 ohms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!tulane!ukma!widener!dsinc!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Fuck the CIA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 03:49:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7113 alt.conspiracy:16755

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>
> SEE ? I am everywhere ! It's impossible to implant me with one of your
> crystals..
>
>
>  ---
> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)

        Oh, but don't worry, Gary. We can follow your every move if we want
to. You'll have to go to sleep sometime. You can stay awake for... how long?
Two days? Three? And you know you're going to sleep very soundly when you do.

        We'll have no trouble dealing with you, Gary. You might as well
relax. There's not a lot you can do to avoid it.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!tigger!schiffd
From: [e-mail] (David M. Schiff)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Santa?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 09:46:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Planet)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.cs.colorado.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (BBB) writes:
>
>   I read in a recent publication that the Santa Clause myth started with a UFO
>sighting one Christmas eve in the mid 1800s. The story of the jolly fatman was
>made up to keep the witnesses for being persecuted. But parts of the story betray
>the origin. The sleigh and the deer discribe a fleet of craft flying in
>formation. The Ho Ho Ho was the sound that these craft made as they made their
>way across the sky. These aliens most likely even landed on a roof where they
>could have easily slid down a chimney.
>

These were the good aliens who left presents.
Later, the greys came and tried to interfere.  This is how
we got the story about the Grinch.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!wang!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 09:45:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Lines: 14
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rw = [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
jw = [e-mail]

jw: I had a person asked me how he could get more information about the
jw: people from the p----------. I mailed him the address you gave out for
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
rw: Why are you blanking out this!!

Because Kibo is a Pleiadian!
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     Does someone from PEORIA have a SHORTER ATTENTION span than
 |warren@      me?
/ nysernet.org
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!and!jos
From: [e-mail] (Jos Horsmeier)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A Confirmed UFO Coverup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 10:44:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: AND Software BV Rotterdam
Lines: 19
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:27320 alt.paranormal:5402 alt.alien.visitors:7116

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rich Payne) writes:
|In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
|
|>    Can this be found somewhere on a BBS-downloadable ASCII text file?
|>(Is ASCII text file redundant?)
|
|It would be if there were no other way of encoding text. There is another
|standard, EBCDIC  (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code) which
|is used by a few computers on the net. I have been told that this is a good
|reason to use ASCII mode for ftp'ing text files. It does not seem to be
|popular. There must be a conspiracy in here somewhere?
|
|Your 'c' excercise for today is to write a EBCDIC to ASCII translator.

main() { system("dd conv=ascii"); }

Did I win? Yes? Yes? ;-)

Jos aka [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!gisle
From: [e-mail] (Gisle Hannemyr)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 12:36:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Gisle Hannemyr)
Organization: [e-mail]
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: gyda.ifi.uio.no
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Tue, 14 Jul 1992 22:38:35 GMT
Originator: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:

> I read in a recent publication that the Santa Clause myth started ...

MYTH!!!!   You claim that Santa is a MYTH?

Then you should take this to alt.atheism.
Here in alt.alien.visitors we belive in everything -- including Santa...
--
Disclaimer: My employer seldom even LISTENS to my opinion.

- gisle hannemyr  (Norsk Regnesentral)
  OSI:   C=no;PRMD=uninett;O=nr;S=Hannemyr;G=Gisle (X.400 SA format)
         [e-mail]                      (RFC-822  format)
  Inet:  [e-mail]
  UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ifi!gisle
------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!milo!monster.saic.com!tomj
From: [e-mail] (Tom Johnson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 11:55:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Tom Johnson)
Organization: SAIC, McLean, VA
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Brick: I am real and have been taught how to send and receive
>telepathic messages.  Even my dog is telpathic. Open minded people
>can be shown how to be telepathic with just a little bit of instruction.

How 'bout a brief summary of what the instruction entails?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 13:13:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

Dear Everybody:
I went over to Don Showen and took my son's computer and we were still
unable to post the information from Shaari about Ley Lines.  It appears
that I need to put the information in text form. I hope to make it yet.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 13:26:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <#7![e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <hy#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5

Dear Everybody: People have asked me how they can get more information
about the hidden ancient ruins.   The address is Mystic Mountain
Adventures, Dept. 100 11142 Manhattan Avnue, Ste. 43 Manhattan Beach,
CA 90266 [phone].
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 13:34:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Mark: This person conducts tours. He can be reached at Mystic
Mountain Adventures, Dept.100 1142 Manhattan Avenue, Ste.43 Manhattan
Beach, CA. 90266 [phone].
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: too many personal messages
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 13:37:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 2

Dear Brick: I get you drift.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <=x+m9#[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 14:39:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Everybody:
>I went over to Don Showen and took my son's computer and we were still
>unable to post the information from Shaari about Ley Lines.  It appears
>that I need to put the information in text form. I hope to make it yet.
>John Winston.

OF COURSE YOU NEED IT IN TEXT FORM.  Do you think we read binary or
some word proceesor's control characters?

And BTW John stop wasting net bandwidth by sending blank posts.

Cary

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 16:30:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7124 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1929
Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsyb.desy.de

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> ... re: ramjets ...
>> acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
>> So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
>> would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!
>
>> Sam Silverstein
>> UW-Madison Dept. of Physics
>
> ... but also bear in mind that as the ship approaches relativistic
> speeds and length contraction starts to be appreciable, the apparent
> density of particles in space will increase.  So a ramjet gets more
> efficient, the faster it goes.
>
> Jason

But don't forget that the particles in space have a higher velocity w.r.t. the
spaceship, so the deflection field will need to do more work to channel the
nucleons into the reactor. So this will cause a decrease in the efficiency.

Sam
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 15:11:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>... re: ramjets ...
>> acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
>> So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
>> would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!
>
>... but also bear in mind that as the ship approaches relativistic
>speeds and length contraction starts to be appreciable, the apparent
>density of particles in space will increase.  So a ramjet gets more
>efficient, the faster it goes.

    Keep in mind you don't just have to gather the hydrogen, you also
have to get it to fuse while in the close vicinity of the ramjet (If you're
using fusion energy from the ISM  rather than using it as a working fluid and
energising it with some internal (Or external? Could we use a variation of
Forward's 'starwisp' idea to provide energy to the ship?). This may be
very difficult; I believe that Heppenheimer did calculations of the energy
production rate of a Bussard ramjet and found it was not any good at
providing thrust. It made a damn good brake, though...

                                James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19
From: [e-mail] (Janet Lynn Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: To ed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 15:16:22 GMT
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:5403 talk.religion.newage:10755 alt.alien.visitors:7126

I am getting your letters but you apparantly aren't getting mine.  I'll keep
trying.  Must be something on the path going your way.  Maybe the CA
earthquakes.  It's probably something in CA that has gone down and someone,
somewhere has to be aware of it and is working on it.  Well, don't stop
sending to me.  Well be up and running again here soon.

*%=

Sorry folks for posting here.  Maybe someone is aware of problems and can shed
some light on this?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!viking.enet.dec.com!ed_eck
From: [e-mail] (My name is...)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 16:38:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10756 alt.alien.visitors:7127 sci.skeptic:27325


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
>>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
>>process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation.
>
>I'd call it "Crackpots in crock pots."


Ya know, I really should appoligize for this.

Anybody who can spend an afternoon sipping wine in a hot tub with a bunch
of looney NewAge women, get _them_ to pay muchos moola for a session, and
then GET THE WHOLE THING WRITTEN OFF AS A BUSINESS EXPENSE...

This man has a lot to teach all of us!

(Hey, Don--ever thought of selling franchises?)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: 1988 Eastlake Case Revisited
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:40:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 237
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns6.ins.cwru.edu


Uploaded with permission of Christopher Evans of the Cleveland Plain Dealer
on an article entitle "Space Case - The Night The Coast Guard Got Buzzed,"
dated July 12, 1988.

They keep it in the "Classics File" at the Coast Guard's 9th District Head-
quarters downtown:  a single-page incident report issued by the Fairport Har-
bor station on the night of March 4, 1988.  The subject:  Unidentified Flying
Objects.

"None of those guys are around anymore and I wasn't there," says Chief Quar-
termaster Leo Deon of the Search and Rescue Data Section.  "They saw something,
but who knows what."

Sgt. Greg Reid was the executive officer at the Fairport station before he re-
tired and joined the Lake County Sheriff's Department.

"I believe my guys," he says.  "They were definitly sure of what they saw."

Sheila Baker sits in her kitchen, sunlight streaming through the windows, a
black, prune-faced Shar-Pei snoring on the floor.

"I'm a typical Jewish mother with three kids," she says.  "I go to temple.  I
believe in God."

She fingers her ponytail.  Then leans forward.

"I know," she says.  "I saw it."

Friday, March 4, 1988, started cold and got colder.  There were light snow
flurries throughout the day, but by the time the sun set at 6:21 the clouds
had broken up and the night sky was clear and star-studded.

Sheila Baker and her husband, Henry, drove north along Ohio 91 into Eastlake
and then turned east on Lake Shore Boulevard.  They had taken the kids to
Chuck E. Cheese for dinner and were almost home.  As they neared the lake,
they saw the blink of red warning lights on the two smokestacks that towered
over the CEI plant.

Sheila liked the lights, the way they rose 500, 600 feet straight up those ce-
ment chimneys like the fins on a rocket ship.  But tonight they looked differ-
ent.  The kids noticed it, too.  At first Sheila thought some of the lights
had burned out.  But as they drove closer she could make out a shape.  Some-
thing in the air.  Out over the lake.  Motionless.

"There's something out there," she said to Henry.  "See, over by the stacks."

Henry couldn't see anything.  "You're pregnant," he said.  "You're probably
hallucinating."

Sheila was thinking it could be the Goodyear blimp.  It kind of looked like a
football.  but what would the Goodyear blimp be doing out on a night like
this?

"Go down to the beach," she told Henry.  "I wanna take a look."

Instead of arguing, Henry passed their house on Hiawatha and drove down the
hill to the beach.  He parked at the base of a wide ridge that climbed some
30 feet in front of them, dirt and chunks of concrete that acted as a break-
wall.

A well-torn path led around it to a small, sandy beach that curled into a cor-
ner at the feet of the two smokestacks.

Sheila got out of the car.

The moon was bright and full, and the ice on the lake looked eerie.  Sheila
could hear it cracking.  Loud.  Like claps of thunder.  In between the claps,
nothing.  A dead calm.  Not even a dog barking.  Everybody around here had a
dog and one of them was always barking.

"That's weird," Sheila thought, reaching the beach, the night sky bursting
above her, limitless, going up and up and up, and there it was.  The Good-
year blimp times 10.  But without the cabin underneath it.  This thing was
slick.  A football the size of a football field.  Gunmetal gray.  Blinding
white light poured out of both ends, but the thing itslef made no noise, the
ice beneath it grinding and exploding like a string of M-80s.

Sheila figured it was about a quarter-mile above her, just off shore.  It
rocked back and forth like a teeter-totter.  She knew what it was.  She read
the Weekly Worked News.  She saw "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."  but
she didn't believe it.  It couldn't be real, and yet there it was, moving now,
one end swinging ponderously toward shore, dipping down, closer and closer
toward her.

Sheila started running and she ran right into Henry, who swore and started
running, too.  They beat it back to the car like a couple of hicks in a Mar-
tian move.  Henry hit the gas.  Sheila locked the doors and told the kids to
get down.

"You don't think they're going to come and get us?" Sheila asked.

Henry was oblivious.  "Wow," he said.  "This is great.  I'm gonna get the
binoculars."

Three minutes later, Sheila had hustled the kids out of the car and into the
back bedroom.  She opened the closet door.

"Get in there," she said and shut the door before they could argue.  She
pulled down all the window blinds, turned off the lights and locked the bed-
room door.  Then she walked into the living room.

Henry was standing by the window that faced the lake.  The object had moved
out over the ice.  It seemed to be descending.  Red and blue lights were now
flashing sequentially along its lower edge.  Sheila picked up the phone and
called the Eastlake police.

"I want to report a UFO," she told the cop who answered.

He seemed insulted.

"There's something out there," she said.  I'm watching it now."

He told her to call Lost Nation Airport in Willoughby.  Probably an adver-
tising plane, a helicopter.  Sheila called the airport.  The guy in the tow-
er told her they had nothing taking off or landing.  She asked if there
were any weird blips on his radar screen.  He said no.  He figured maybe it
was the planets, Venus and Jupiter.  She should call NASA.

All the time Sheila was watching it.  It was about five miles out now, still
descending, red and blue lights flashing as if it was going to crash.  She
called the cops back.  They told her unusual activity over the lake was the
responsibility of the Coast Guard.  Sheila called Fairport Harbor.  They
suggested Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

"Everybody thinks I'm nuts," she told Henry.

Suddenly a series of bright triangular yellow lights shot out of the center of
the object.  These triangles, there were five or six of them, it was hard to
count they moved so quickly, looked about the size of a single-seat Cessna.
They hovered point-up around the object.  Then darted north, then east, head-
ing inland toward the Perry nuclear power plant.  Sheila had never seen any-
thing move that fast.  Zero to warp-speed in less than a nanosecond.  Without
making a sound.  She called the Coast Guard again.  This time they said they
were sending a crew by the house.  Sheila let her kids out of the closet, but
made them stay in the bedroom with the door locked.

Mobile Unit 2 was a 1984 blue Chevy Suburban and the two guys in it were gung-
ho.  Seaman James Powers and Petty Officer John Knaub said they could see the
lights from Fairport Harbor.  They figured they were flares.  Fishermen trapped
out on the ice, that kind of thing.  They were towing a 22-foot Boston Whaler
just in case.

Sheila and Henry pointed to the object they now thought of as the mother ship.
A co of the triangles were zipping around it.  Powers and Knaub didn't
say a word.  Instead of driving onto the beach, they four-wheeled the Chevy
up the ridge.  The ice was going nuts, rippling and rumbling and roaring.
Sheila and Henry got out.  The windows were down and they could hear Knaub
and Powers talking to the base.

"Be advised the object appears to be landing on the lake," they said.  "Be
advised there are other objects moving in around it.  Be advised these
smaller objexts are going at high rates of speed.  There are no engine
noises and they are very, very low.  Be advised these are not planets."

All of a sudden one of the triangles zoomed toward the Chevy, low, just
above the ice, a blur of light blistering straight at them.  Knaub quickly
rolled the van back down the ridge.  The triangle veered east, then went
straight up and came down beside the mother ship.  Sheila told Knaub to
turn his lights off.

"Why attract attention" she asked.

Fifteen miles to the southeast, not too far from the Perry plant, Cindy Hale
stepped outside to walk her dog.  She noticed a triangular light hovering
above her.  The dog began to whine and cower.  Cindy took it back inside.
But she came out again.  The triangle flashed a sequence of multicolored
lights and Cindy responded by flicking her Bic.  This went on for about 30
minutes, then the triangle accelerated and was gone.  It didn't make a sound.

Tim Keck was observing the stars through his telescope when a bright triangular
object caught his eye.  Luckily, Time had his camera with him.  It wasn't a
great camera.  In fact, it was a little plastic number he had gotten free
from Burger King.  But it worked, and he took a picture of the triangle before
it disappeared silently over the horizon.

Back at the lake, the mother ship was almost on the ice.  For an hour, Henry
had stood on the ridge and listened as Powers and Knaub communicated with
their base.  They said things like, "You should be advised that the object
is now shining lights all over th lake and it's turning different colors."

The ice thundered.  Powers and Knaub had to yell to be heard.  Henry thought
the big ship was in trouble.  So did Sheila.  She had gone back to the house.
The kids were still locked in the bedroom and she watched from the window.
Suddenly the triangles were back.  They shot one by one into the side of the
mother ship as it seemed to set down on the howling ice.

It flashed a sequence of red, blue and yellow lights.  Sheila thought they
looked beautiful.  Then the white light that poured from the front of the
object turned red and the triangles reappeared, hovering over it.  The ice
boomed, louder and louder, and then suddenly it stopped.  The lights disap-
peared.  So did the triangles.  Now there was nothing.  Darkness and silence.

Powers and Knaub drove off white-faced.  Sheila and Henry stood watch through
the night.  In the morning all that remained were scattered chunks of broken
ice.  But that evening, the triangles returned.

Sheila called the Coast Guard.  This time they sent three people.  But they
arrived too late and the triangles were gone.  To reassure the Bakers, they
called Lost Nation Airport and talked to Elizabeth Mele in the control tower
who told them the two bright lights in the sky were Venus and Jupiter, and the
flashing lights were gases in the atmosphere.

That was Saturday.  On Monday, The Plain Dealer ran a short item headlined
"Cozying of Jupiter, Venus light up sky."  The Lake County News-Herald ran
a similar version with the caption "Sky-gazers mistake planets for UFOs."

Sheila called Fairport Harbor.  Powers and Knaub weren't there.  She left a
message.  They didn't call back.  She called again and again and again.
Nothing.

Four years later, she's still confused.

"The government flat-out denies it happened and I was standing there with two
government employees watching it and they saw it and then they disappear."

Chief Leo Deon said the Coast Guard had no official policy in regard to UFOs,
and since there were no more sightings that was the end of it.  All personnel
assigned to Fairport Harbor in 1988 have been rotated out.  Deon said he
couldn't locate Powers, who had left the service, or Knaub through personnel
records, because those records have been archived in Washington.

"It was big around the station for a while," says retired executive officer
Greg Reid.  "Then it just fizzled out."

Sheila Baker frowns and points a finger.

"You start to worry," she says.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This case was originally investigated by Rick Dell'Aquila and Dale Wedge who
were members of MUFON in 1988.  The case has been getting some attention after
all this time and we shall report on any new developments.

The next portion of the upload will be the "official" Coast Guard document as
it appeared when we received it from the Coast Guard.
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From: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: 1988 Eastlake Case Revised - Part Two
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:54:15 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 57
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns6.ins.cwru.edu


A typed out look at the "official" Coast Guard document:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#209=file Number

COG:          INFO

 OPC          DCS DGP DPA B M O OLE OSR

FP D9AW
D9 AW DE FP
ISN-FP021
P 051405Z MAR 88
FM COGARD STA FAIRPORT OH//CO//
TO AW/COMCOGARDGRU DETROIT MI//OPS//
INFO D9/CCGDNINE CLEVELAND OH//OSR//
BT
UNCLAS //N16144//
SUBJ:  INCIDENT REPORT:  UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
1. UNIDENTIFIABLE FLYING OBJECTS 1/4 MILE EAST OF CEI POWER PLANT.
2. AT 2035 LCL THIS STATION RCVD A CALL FROM SHEILA BAKER [BLANKED OUT
THE ADDRESS] RPTNG A LARGE OBJECT HOVERING
OVER THE LAKE AND APPARENTLY ON A SLOW DECENT.  THE OBJECT HAD A WHITE
LIGHT AND WAS APPROX. 1/4 MILE UP AND SHE WAS UNABLE TO DETERMINE HOW
FAR OUT IT WAS.  THIS UNIT SENT 2 CREWMEMBERS TO INVESTIGATE.  BEFORE
THEY ARRIVED O/S, WE RCVD 2 MORE CALLS RPTNG THAT THE OBJECT HAD
APPARENTLY DISPERSED 3-5 SMALLER FLYING OBJECTS THAT WERE ZIPPING
AROUND RATHER QUICKLY.  THESE OBJECTS HAD RED, GREEN, WHITE AND YELLOW
LIGHTS ON THEM THAT STROBED INTERMITTENTLY.  THEY ALSO HAD THE ABILITY
TO STOP AND HOVER IN MID FLIGHT.  WHEN MOBILE 02 GOT O/S, THEY RPTD
THE SAME ACTIVITY.  THEY WATCHED THE OBJECTS FOR APPROX. 1 HOUR BEFORE
RPTNG THAT THE LARGE OBJECT WAS ALMOST ON THE ICE.  THEY RPTD THAT THE
ICE WAS CRACKING AND MOVING ABNORMAL AMOUNTS AS THE OBJECT CAME CLOSER
TO IT.  THE ICE WAS RUMBLING AND THE OBJECT LIT MULTI-COLOR LIGHTS AT
EACH END AS IT APPARENTLY LANDED.  THE LIGHTS ON IT WENT OUT
MOMENTARILY AND THEN CAME ON AGAIN.  THEY WENT OUT AGAIN AND THE
RUMBLING STOPPED AND THE ICE STOPPED MOVING.  THE SMALLER OBJECTS
BEGAN HOVERING IN THE AREA WHERE THE LARGE OBJECT LANDED AND AFTER A
FEW MINUTES THEY BEGAN FLYING AROUND AGAIN.  MOBILE 02 RPTD THAT THEY
APPEARED TO BE SCOUTING THE AREA.  MOBILE 02 RPTD THAT 1 OBJECT WAS
MOVING TOWARD THEM AT A HIGH SPEED AND LOW TO THE ICE.  MOBILE 02
BACKED DOWN THE HILL THEY HAD BEEN ON AND WHEN THEY WENT BACK TO THE
HILL, THE OBJECT WAS GONE.  THEY RPTD THAT THE OBJECTS COULD NOT BE
SEEN IF THEY TURNED OFF THERE LIGHTS.  ONE OF THE SMALL OBJECTS TURNED
ON A SPOTLIGHT WHERE THE LARGE OBJECT HAD BEEN BUT MOBILE 02 COULD
NOT SEE ANYTHING, AND THEN THE OBJECT SEEMED TO DISAPPEAR.  ANOTHER
OBJECT APPROACHED MOBILE 02 APPROX. 500 YDS. OFFSHORE ABOUT 20 FT.
ABOVE THE ICE, AND IT BEGAN MOVING CLOSER AS MOBILE 02 BEGAN
FLASHING ITS HEADLIGHTS, THEN IT MOVED OFF TO THE WEST.
3. THE CREWMEMBERS WERE UNABLE TO IDENTIFY ANY OF THE OBJECTS USING
BINOCULARS AND AFTER CONTACTING LOCAL POLICE AND AIRPORTS, THIS UNIT
WAS UNABLE TO IDENTIFY THE OBJECTS, AND RECALLED MOBILE 02.
BT
TOR-03:05:14:44

COGARD STA FAIRPORT OH//CO//            P 051405Z MAR 88        /LB
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From: [e-mail] (Kevlar)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 19:40:15 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevlar)
Organization: SSC
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov


     The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying shades
from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the sandbox
to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?
Do these "circles" indicate the presence of extraterrestrial beings
here on earth? Has anyone else had a similar encounter? Are there
"Grays" nesting near my home?



Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!decwrl!amdcad!sono!lawson
From: [e-mail] (Drew Lawson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 16:46:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7131 sci.skeptic:27337

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Drew: It off that you would mention the book Chariots of the
>Gods because that is one of the books that was recommended by the
>space person who went with Shirley McClain's friend in South
>America.
>John Winston.

Did I ever meantion that I was Shirley McLain in a prior life?

--
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
[e-mail]                you're part of the precipitate
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Gorski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 20:25:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Wisconsin Physical Sciences Lab
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevlar) writes:
>
>     The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
>phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
>turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
>perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying shades
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the sandbox
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
>these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?
>Do these "circles" indicate the presence of extraterrestrial beings
>here on earth? Has anyone else had a similar encounter? Are there
>"Grays" nesting near my home?
>

Not the Greys--sounds like you've been visited by the Giant Dog People
from the planet Dogdrool.  Better keep your cats indoors if you
have any, and you might want to spray the entire outside of your house,
as well as all of the shrubs with one of those "Doggy No!" products that
keep pets from climbing up on furniture.

Just to be safe.

--Tom Gorski
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!efi!chrisp
From: [e-mail] (Chris Phoenix)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.physics,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Bosonic Transport
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:57:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Electronics For Imaging, Inc.
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1934 sci.physics:23866 alt.alien.visitors:7133

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Sorry, but that's not quite correct. Helium in the superfluid state does indeed
>act like a boson, but even though its superfluidity allows it to flow through
>the tiniest of pores, it is still contained in its cryogenic vessel. At a
>small enough range, the effects of the individual fermions which comprise it
>become significant.
>
>So even if you did properly align the spins of all the molecules in a
>spaceship to make it a boson, it would not be able to penetrate through solid
>matter.

Ah yes, see how far we've come.  The burning question of today:  "How many
bosons can dance on the head of a pin?"

For the humor impaired:  This is purely a joke, not intended to convey any
opinion on the subject or person referenced above.


--
"I did not walk into the wall!  OK, I did walk into the wall, but it wasn't
my fault!!"
            Chris Phoenix -- [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: Re: Men In Black
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 09:25:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 11

[e-mail] (Travis Stone) 13 June 92 19:51:30 GMT types--
>Charles are you sure it was a case of the guys NAME being "Bender"
>instead of his being ON one.

Ah the alternative Amazing Mental Bending of Hans.

************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL
************************
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: FBI Documents?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 21:14:38 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 11

Does anyone out there know how to get actual FBI documents on UFO's?  I
have seen these documents at seminars and such. I also know these
documents can be obtained via the "Freedom of Information Act".  I would
like to know how to obtain these documents from respective government
agencies using the "Freedom of Information Act".

                                Many Thanks in advance,
                                Joseph A. Citro III
                                [e-mail]

Freedom of Information Act.
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From: [e-mail] (William E. Grosso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 21:50:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 18
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinoko.berkeley.edu

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Kevlar) writes:
>
>      The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
> phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
> turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
> perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying
shades
> from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the
sandbox
> to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
> these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?


Good One!!!!


Bill Grosso
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 23:17:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>
> > I read in a recent publication that the Santa Clause myth started ...
>
> MYTH!!!!   You claim that Santa is a MYTH?
>
No! The attribution is wrong! I didn't say that. Please don't report
this to the Greys, please, it wasn't me honest.

barry--
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 23:56:33 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 126


     Subject: Crop Circles.

    About a year ago I was listening to an Am radio station  in San
    Francisco by the call letters KEST, 1450 on the dial and heard the
    last part of a conversation of a young lady by  the name  of Shaari.
    She was talking about crop circles and appeared to me to understand
    the subject very well.

    I contacted a friend of mine by the name of Dr. David Kamitser who was
    planning some seminars with her and he gave me her address in Canada.
    I wrote her and she sent me a complementary copy of one of her tapes
    that was talking about crop circles. I will now attempt to  take the
    information off of her tape.  The parts that I couldn't understand
    will be put in brackets,like this { }.

    Transmission from SHAARI and her friends Abraham and Malaya.
    P.O. Box 22040 Brentwood Bay, B.C. Canada
         VOS IRO (604-652-3118).

    MYSTERIOUS MARKINGS ON EARTH'S SURFACE.

    Well, it's quite a delight being with everyone again, and tonight's
    topic is the Mysterious Markings  on the Earth's Surface.

    I would like to welcome you all to this recording and without further
    ado let's just go straight into our lecture.  Thank you.

    And so these markings are not necessarily circular markings in the
    {corn} fields that many of you have seen on Unsolved Mysteries and
    20/20 programs but they are also the mysterious markings of the Nasca
    Lines and other markings that have cropped up all over the planet and
    are still all over the planet,in India, in Australia, throughout the
    United States and Canada, Great Britain, Europe, who knows, even
    Russia, you know what they have been recording for centuries and are
    now being portrayed to the rest of the western world.

    This evening is not just for, as some people may say, this is all
    evidence of the Star Command.  No, because there is far more than the
    Star Command out there.  The Star Command in itself is a service
    department to the Light Brotherhood.  They are there and they are
    composed of a conglomerate of beings from other planets and other
    dimensions.  Some of them have physical densities, others have a more
    {rarefied} densities and they live on board what you may call
    Unidentified Flying Objects, UFOs or whatever. We like to call them
    starships.

    They live on these starships and they {work many times at night on
    your own environs}, with your higher selves, with any other beings in
    any dimension as long as they are from the Light Brotherhood. So when
    we are speaking of the Star Command, they are a service department of
    the Light Brotherhood.  They are there to assist in the process of
    healing of planet Earth, and all the consciousness on planet Earth.
    They include all the animal consciousness as well because there are
    many animal kingdoms that are in a state of total devastation and
    extinctionism in some of them.

    It's not only humanity that we are helping but it is also the planet
    herself. The Star Command has many planets, but the center of our
    discussion is the {work} of the Star Command around the planet Earth
    as well as many other being's efforts that are now making their impact
    around  the Earth. So maybe we should talk first of all about the
    Earth a little bit and  {about the Earth  consciousness} but for the
    purposes of background, the Earth is a being, all right?  She is a
    living breathing soul. She's not some sort of abstract, piece of
    inanimate rock that has {gone through a big explosion} and  now it's
    here to fulfill humanity's purpose. She has a life  she has  a vision
    and her vision is first and foremast to heal herself.

    Second, is to become the University {for}  other interplanetary
    beings, to come forth to her, to know in her service, to learn in a
    variety of densities, to learn in a variety of climates, to learn in a
    variety of terrain. And now the planet herself is now wanting to  go
    from what she  calls the  kindergarten school of consciousness into
    the university consciousness. The {noble} and universal consciousness
    and by that  she is preparing herself to welcome a multitude of beings
    from many other universes. Universes that many of you have never even
    heard of, consciousness that many of you can not even {perceive}.
    Beings from other planets that there is not {way of explaining them to
    you }.

    So  if you have problems with inter-racial marriages or racism you had
    better get a hold of  that for now because when  you have  beings from
    other planets, when you get underneath the veneer whatever physical
    beingness  they may have, they are a soul  and they have all been
    created by the God and the Goddess. The Earth herself underneath her
    shell, underneath those rocks, she is a  consciousness. She is a soul.
    She  is a living breathing being, with a  vision to love all
    universes, {into an experience of education} and she herself having
    {spanded} from a series of 6 sister planets, she traveled many
    millions,  and millions and millions of years ago, through a black
    hole in , what you call your universe.

    She made that journey, through a black hole She emerged here in this
    universe.  She had {left} 6 sister planets behind. One of the sister
    planets is now making the journey to join her and she herself is also
    trying to change her {position} from this {sector} of the universe and
    she's trying to move to be closer in proximity to this other planet
    that  will be emerging.  This is in essence a {satellite} not so much
    like she is made, not like a twin not like a copy  but very much
    inhabitable, but before she can do  that, no It's not going  to happen
    in a hundred years or then thousand it's not {going to happen over
    hundreds of thousands of years}.

    Again, time doesn't exist in that  realm. We do  not measure time.
    Our time is {simultaneous},  but when your looking at the Earth, the
    Earth is a consciousness.  She {needs first and foremost to be}
    honored that she is  taking care  of  her own healing and not  to be
    viewed ass a being that is helpless, that is a {martyr} by  humanity}
    but rather is capable of being her own healer,{but is capable of doing
    it with you}.

    And so, this evening when we are looking at  the mysterious marking on
    the Earth's surface it is that  these markings are  not  so  much
    messages from another world coming in saying  "Humanity Behold  Us"
    although  that  would be a really  nice {prophecy} to  think it is but
    it is more like a scene of activating on a consciousness {inside, deep
    within} her.  It  also is  a display of her change, her physical, her
    emotions, {how it is changing} and it is also a format in which
    healing circles, healing cycles  and energy can be  brought to the
    Earth and can  be sent deep within her ley lines and  within her
    chackras.

    So, this evening we'll divide it into two {chapters}.  The first
    {chapter} is the mysterious circular markings in the wheat fields that
    have occurred across the planet.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!van-bc!eslvcr!ted
From: [e-mail] (Ted Powell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Summary: Where is Ermintrude when we need her?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 23:21:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada
Lines: 15
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7139 sci.skeptic:27350

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
>> ...  Arthur C. Clarke, noted Brit SF author, who
>>[...]

>  Considering the content of these news.groups, perhaps one should
>remember his Tales from the White Hart?

IMHO, Harry Purvis was more entertaining.  :-)

Thanks for bringing back memories; I think it's time for (yet another)
reread.

--
[e-mail]   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!lucsand!anduin!bruce
From: [e-mail] (Bruce Stephens)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 17:09:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><1992J
 [e-mail]><[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool, UK
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Nntp-Posting-Host: supr.scm.liv.ac.uk
Nntp-Posting-User: bruce

>>>>> On 12 Jul 92 22:10:00 GMT, [e-mail] said:

> Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
> in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
> been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
> system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
> John Winston.

How is this controversial?  Zero is less than one in ten thousand!

Are there any references for this?  (The National Enquirer is
difficult to obtain in the UK, so I'd prefer Nature, for example.)

Bruce
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!kisicki
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Kisicki)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 01:30:41 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 4

Where could I find some written information on the so called MIB theory. It
sounds interesting, but someone trying to explain something they read, or heard
isn't always as reliable as the source, ie a book or something. Thanks in
advance for your help.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: FBI Documents?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 01:50:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 117
Cc: mcgrew

Hi,

    >[e-mail] (Joe Citro III) writes:
    >Does anyone out there know how to get actual FBI documents on
    >UFO's?  I have seen these documents at seminars and such. I
    >also know these documents can be obtained via the "Freedom of
    >Information Act".

.... try to pick up a copy of Lawrence Fawcett and Barry Greenwood's
"Clear Intent" (Prentiss-Hall, 1984).  In includes two chapters
on the FBI, and includes portions of various FOIA-obtained documents.
You also might want to subscribe to CAUS's magazine "Just Cause" --
CAUS specializes in UFO-related FOIA cases (the authors of "Clear
Intent" are from CAUS).

    >I would like to know how to obtain these
    >documents from respective government agencies using the
    >"Freedom of Information Act".

.... portions extracted from a Int'l UFO Reporter, May/June 1987
article by Don Schmitt and Paul Jeffries (IUR is the magazine of
CUFOS):

   The FOIA is a federal law which provides that all records of
agencies of the federal government are open to the public unless there
is a specific exemption from disclosure.   Some of the exemptions are:

    * in legitimate matters of national security - for instance,
        to protect intelligence sources.
    * intra-agency memoranda may also be exempted (that is,
        requests for those documents may be legitimately
        turned down.)

   An outline of what the authors suggest as the best way to seek
federal agency records via the FOIA:

    1) "Determine first which agency has the records" - if you
aren't sure which it is, check the "United States Government Manual"
(available from the Office of the Federal Register, Nat'l Archives and
Records Admin., National Referral Center, Library of Congress,
Washington DC.  The article gives the phone number as 202-287-5670,
but I can't vouch for it, and I also don't know what it might cost.)
If in doubt, contact each potentially relevant agency, and
speak/correspond with the "Freedom of Information Officer".  The FIO
will tell you if his/her agency has the records, and if not, what
agency does.

    2) "Write to the FIO".  (Keep copies of everything, with dates)

    3) "Make your request pursuant to the FIOA", e.g. include the
following: "I am writing to request agency records pursuant to the
Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C 552."

    4) "Arrange to pay the agency for search and copy fees."  The
agency is allowed to do this, so be prepared to spend the money.  Ask
the agency what it charges for search and copy of requested records.
In your letter, tell the agency that you are willing to pay all fees,
or will pay all fees up to a certain amount in complying with your
request.  For instance, "I agree to pay search and copying fees
required to satisfy this request up to $35.  If you anticipate the
total fees will exceed $35, please expend $35 to retrieve those
records which are most responsive and readily available, and advise me
as to the amount of any additional fees necessary to comply with this
request."

    5) "Describe precisely which records you want" - describe the
records you are after as specifically as possible - such as subject
matter, relevant dates (or periods), authors, recipients, etc.  The
more specific you get, the more likely it is that they'll find what
you're after promptly (and cheaply, for you.)

    6) "Use 'and' and 'or'".  Ask for all records that concern
"inquiry number 1" or "inquiry number 2", or that have to do with both
"1" and "2" -- this will lessen the chances of the agency playing
grammatical games with you.

    7) "Ask for 'disclosure of all reasonably segregable portions
of records which are in whole or in part except from disclosure'".
That is, you are instructing the agency to send you portions of
documents that are disclosable, even if another portion of the
document is exempt from disclosure laws.  This "reasonably segregable"
part is part of the law, and accounts for documents you may have seen
with parts blacked-out -- the blacked-out parts were exempt.

    8)  "Tell the agency you expect a written reply within the
statutory time limits of the FOIA".  The agency must make a written
"determination" within 10 days of receipt of your request (so you
may wish to send your requests as registered mail, to nail down
the date).  In unusual circumstances the agency may take an additional
10 days -- these 'days' do not include Saturdays, Sundays, or
holidays, i.e. "working days".  The agency gets 20 days for
determination of appeals (see below), with an additional 10 days
allowed for "unusual circumstances".

    9) "If the agency does not answer your request on time, appeal
immediately."  Find out from the agency to whom you should appeal.
Appeal in writing, and include copies of all relevant correspondence
(your request, their response - if any, etc.)

    10) "If the agency denies your request on merits, appeal
immediately."  That is, the agency may claim that the documents you
seek are exempt from diclosure, and you will have to appeal that
claim to whomever handles appeals for that agency.

    11) "If the agency denies your appeal you can sue."  Consult
legal counsel before doing so, and listen to what they say about your
chances.  Note that suing the government can be very expensive.  FOIA
cases are heard in Federal District court (according to the article,
the courts give "some priority" to FOIA cases).  If you win, the court
may award you lawyer's fees and court costs.  "Do not let mere claims
by the agency that the records you seek are exempt deter you.  Federal
courts interpret narrowly the FOIA's exemptions, in favor of
disclosure and against secrecy."

Hope this helps,

Charles
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:08:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7143 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1939 talk.bizarre:65776

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> ... re: ramjets ...
>>> acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
>>> So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
>>> would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!
>>
>>> Sam Silverstein
>>> UW-Madison Dept. of Physics
>>
>> ... but also bear in mind that as the ship approaches relativistic
>> speeds and length contraction starts to be appreciable, the apparent
>> density of particles in space will increase.  So a ramjet gets more
>> efficient, the faster it goes.
>>
>> Jason
>
> But don't forget that the particles in space have a higher velocity w.r.t. the
> spaceship, so the deflection field will need to do more work to channel the
> nucleons into the reactor. So this will cause a decrease in the efficiency.
>
> Sam

Yes, but since you're getting more particles per second you can use
more of them to generate energy for the collector field. Ultimately
you won't need a field at all, just a hole at the front of the ship!

Jason
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:09:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 27
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7144 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1940 talk.bizarre:65777

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>>... re: ramjets ...
>>> acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
>>> So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
>>> would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!
>>
>>... but also bear in mind that as the ship approaches relativistic
>>speeds and length contraction starts to be appreciable, the apparent
>>density of particles in space will increase.  So a ramjet gets more
>>efficient, the faster it goes.
>
>     Keep in mind you don't just have to gather the hydrogen, you also
> have to get it to fuse while in the close vicinity of the ramjet (If you're
> using fusion energy from the ISM  rather than using it as a working fluid and
> energising it with some internal (Or external? Could we use a variation of
> Forward's 'starwisp' idea to provide energy to the ship?). This may be
> very difficult; I believe that Heppenheimer did calculations of the energy
> production rate of a Bussard ramjet and found it was not any good at
> providing thrust. It made a damn good brake, though...
>
>                                 James Nicoll

What is the 'starwisp' idea?

Jason
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:11:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7145 talk.bizarre:65778

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Amy E Schermerhorn) writes:
>
> I believe that alt.alien.visitors should be renamed to alt.john.winston
> since about 50% of the messages are from him.
>
> Anthony Clifton

Well, have you some input to give?

Jason
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:25:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 18
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7146 talk.bizarre:65779

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Brick: I am real and have been taught how to send and receive
> telepathic messages.  Even my dog is telpathic. Open minded people
> can be shown how to be telepathic with just a little bit of instruction.
> While I was a civilian electronics instructor at Treasure Island during
> spare time I would show students how to send and receive messages and
> they would locate one another while on the base when one would send the
> message that they wanted to locate one another.  I do know people
> inside of Mt. Shasta.  One is named Phylos and he inspired the writing
> of a book called A Dweller of Two Planets by Oliver in the 1880 so that
> makes him pretty old.  The book is a classic and can still be obtained
> in the Calif. library system. John Winston.

.... so I guess after this admission you won't be using USENET much
anymore?

Jason
P.S. Nice touch about the dog ...
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:26:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><5+9lv <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7147 talk.bizarre:65780

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Drew: It off that you would mention the book Chariots of the
> Gods because that is one of the books that was recommended by the
> space person who went with Shirley McClain's friend in South
> America.
> John Winston.

You're jokin' me, right?

Jason
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 18:27:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail].b <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7148 talk.bizarre:65781

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Gisle:
> You have me pretty well figured out.  I would recommend that
> anyone who puts some truth of this net seal their aura first.
> John Winston.

Nawww, come on now...

Jason
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Missing & Mutilated Humans
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 02:46:11 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7149 alt.paranormal:5408
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com


This is another report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.

In his talk "Ufology in the Commonwealth of Independent States" on July 11,
Vladimir Ajaja (pronounced "ah ZHAH zhah"), President of the UFO Centre,
Moscow, reported on the state of UFO research and public involvement in the
subject in the former Soviet Union.

Most of his talk was academic and unremarkable until near the end, when he
made the startling claim that there may be as many as 5000 persons reported
permanently missing in association with UFO events, and that there have
been some human bodies found mutilated in much the same way cattle have
been found mutilated in the US, with their reproductive organs missing.

The author sought out Dr. Ajaja after his talk to confirm and amplify his
claim. When asked how many humans were found mutilated, he said three, two
in Russia and one in Chile.

The author then discussed the matter with Linda Moulton Howe, producer of
the film _Strange Harvest_, author of the book _Alien Harvest_, and leading
researcher on animal mutilations. She was aware of Dr. Ajaja's claim and
intended to look into it, but cautions everyone not to make too much of it
until Western ufologists can investigate the matter.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Hollywood gets KGB UFO Data
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 02:56:54 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7150 alt.paranormal:5409
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com


This is another report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.

In the joint session taking questions from the audience on July 11,
Richard F. Haines, who had earlier in the day given a talk entitled
"Fifty-Six Aircraft Pilot Sightings Involving Electromagnetic Effects",
and who is the founder and co-director of the Joint American-Soviet
Aerial Anomaly Federation (the other co-director being Dr. Vladimir
Ajaja), disclosed that members of the KGB are currently negotiating
with Hollywood film companies for the rights to their UFO data.

This raises some serious questions about the handling of this potentially
important data. Is it going to be disclosed to the world in the
dramatized and distorted way Hollywood is noted for treating historic
data on other subjects? If so, then this could be a disaster for
public understanding and scientific inquiry on the subject. Anyone
having any influence in the matter should urge those acquiring this
data to report it straight and completely and not to Hollywoodize it.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!ogicse!psgrain!percy!nosun!hilbert!max
From: [e-mail] (Max Webb)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 20:20:50 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7151 sci.skeptic:27358

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Rich: You ask where do these offsprings (bouncing baby boys or girls)
>come from in the case of women who have known no man. In my opinion, and
>I'm not expert in anything except bringing up controversial subjects,
>all women have both the male and female parts to imprenate their
>own bodies.

You are mistaken. Women don't have Y chromosomes.

>I believe that some men have both male and female parts in
>them also and that brings up the subject of m--------,

OK, I give up. what is m-------? Or is that a secret?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!psgrain!percy!nosun!hilbert!max
From: [e-mail] (Max Webb)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 20:23:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7152 sci.skeptic:27359

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Major Havok) writes:
>  Unless I am mistaken, an ovum stimulated into beginning the reproductive
>cycle without having been fertilized could only make a genetic clone of
>the mother and thus it would seem that ALL children born of this rare type
>of pregnancy would be females.

Not if we are talking about an ordinary ovum; what you get is
haploid females. Half the number of chromosomes, and a whole
lot of problems .. including sterility and mental retardation (?)
if I remember correctly.


    Max
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 04:59:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]
 l.com>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7153 talk.bizarre:65807

Dear Everbody: I have been requested by a few people to explain how to
use telepathy. I will try to do that in a future posting if all goes
well.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 05:02:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10767 alt.alien.visitors:7154 sci.skeptic:27364

OK Tom, later I'll give it the old college try to show everyone how to
use telepathy.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mgreenwe
From: [e-mail] (Martin Greenwell)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 07:06:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 471
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10768 alt.alien.visitors:7155 sci.skeptic:27365

[e-mail] writes:

>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A grea

>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilati
g
>process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation. As far as the cr
ck
>pot last time, who said breathing can kill you, he was kidding or is in
>such personal terror that he made up that belief to guarantee he will no

>get near my hot tub.  The truth is this process is not for wimps. Only o
e
>in ten of my clients is men.  Men are in so much horror over feeling tha

>they encapsulate themselves in denial and ego with the accompanying
>rationalizations and justifications.  BTW, I counsel 10 to 20 of these
>hyperventilating sessions a week and I have been doing it for over 15
>years.  People do not die in my tub,  they become more alive then they h
ve
>been for many, many lifetimes. It is pretty obvious that these concepts
re a
>little to much for most who subscribe to these three groups. So I am
>starting a Pleiadian Group List for those who would like to ask question
,
>make comments and learn more about these powerful,  incredible teachings

>Email me for more information.

>Don Showen
>Soul Guide
>Pleiadian Group
>Church/School/Community
>ET Teachings at their finest

>Immortality of Being and Contact

>The death experience as you know it, is something that you program
>yourselves for. Your aging process is something that is an expectation
>within your lifetimes. We would like to plant the seed for the idea that
>you will be around perhaps for at least a hundred more of your years, if
>you so choose. If you so choose. What you are going to be working on is
n
>understanding and a releasing of ideas that have set about limitations f
r
>your experience and how to reprogram, so to speak,  how to release traum

>that has been built in, that is coded and written within the bones and t
e
>cells of your structure that anticipate a certain form of development.

>This is not a new idea, this idea of immortality. But it is an idea that
is
>going to come alive. You are being prepared to teach the masses whether
ou
>realize it or not. Each of you will be working in a different fashion,
>manifesting your own unique sense of creativity. Yet, each one will be
>catching the core issues that are being stirred up in the masses at this
>time.

>It is imperative that many of you stay around to help formulate the new
>earth that is being birthed. You are not being trained to work for perha
s
>twenty or thirty more of your years and then to retire. That is not what
>this is about. You are in the midst of a gigantic shift in consciousness
>covering the entire earth sphere, Terra. At this point in your time, you
>are only looking through one pin-prick of a view of what this is going t

>involve. It is beyond your comprehension. Rest easy with this for it wil

>open as you are in receptivity to understand what is needed to know.

>This idea of immortality, this longevity in the life experience, will ha
e
>to do with your understanding of the importance of aligning the beliefs
>with the vehicle, of utilizing the great healer and regenerator called
>oxygen on your system, and how through breathing and the releasing of
>limiting ideas and limiting programs that have been placed on the vehicl
,
>you will allow yourself to regenerate.

>Some of you may feel despondent at this idea because your lives are not
n
>harmony at this time and you may say, "I do not want to live 100 more
>years." [This will change] as certain difficulties are brought to the
>surface and released and worked out. This will come about through your
>intentions. It will come about in a natural process. It will develop ove

>time. We are giving you an avenue of exploration to show you what you ar

>working towards. As you make your lives in order and as you are forming
he
>new earth you will want to be here for the gratification and for the
>satisfaction and for the ability to have this great completion that will
>free you with flying colors from your tethers to your Mother Earth.

>You all expect to die.You celebrate your birthdays and you are most joyo
s
>about these birthdays to a certain age. Then you begin to dread them
>because you have a program set out for yourself that says that each
>birthday is bringing about the degeneration of the body, bringing about

>decrepit state, a state of ill health, a state that promotes inactivity.
>Your cards in your stores that you buy promote this. You turn 29 years o
d
>and you say to yourself you are over the hill. We are bringing this up t

>you because we have been working with you and preparing you not for a fe

>years of excitement but for many years if you choose. It is always up to
>you.

>There are probable lives that exist in front of you that are free of
>physical difficulty. If you wish to be free of physical difficulties it
s
>you that needs to be in receptivity of healing. Healing is necessary whe

>there is a discomfort within the body. A discomfort exists within the bo
y
>when one refuses the growth that the soul needs to experience. It is a
>blockage of growth. It is a fear of change.

>You have heard us speak often enough how important it is to change and y
t
>each and every one of you fear change and you wish to control down to th

>minutest detail every aspect of your lives. When you allow the vehicle t

>move forward without fear, then there is no need for discomfort or disea
e.
>When you learn to believe that you can maintain a consistency of body
>structure, a consistency of cell regeneration, then truly will you be ab
e
>to demonstrate to others.

>Expand your ideas, particularly in the areas of aging and immortality,
>about who you can be. You can revitalize yourselves. There are ancient
>sciences, as we may call them, on your planet who have spoken of the
>importance of the breath over and over again. And yet to you it all seem

>like too much work. What do you all have in common with one another
>throughout the entire planet? You all need to breathe. Is that not so? A
d
>what is it this oxygen does to your system? It regenerates it. It activa
es
>what is going on inside.

>In this time of energy acceleration it would behoove each and every one
f
>you to add more oxygen to your being. There are many ways to do this. Th

>most simplistic is to become consciously aware of your breath. Through t
e
>breath you can do many things. You can activate the crystalline structur
s
>or deactivate the crystalline structures. You can activate your own self

>You can clear energy that is coming between two beings purely by inhalin

>and releasing. You can bring about a state of great calmness. You can br
ng
>about a state of altered consciousness. You can bring about a state of
>healing. You can bring about, eventually, a state of teleportation and
>bi-location and dematerialization. This is all something that you are
>working towards.

>The second part of our discussion is about being in preparation and what
it
>is to have contact. Contact has existed on your planet from the very
>beginning. There have been those that have come down and it has been the
r
>life journey to sojourn on your planet and to teach cultures. There are
>those who are even on this day sequestered away within the deep catacomb
,
>as you would call them, the deep underground tunnels and monasteries of
>your ancient Tibetan area that house the bodies of those who are kept in
>what you would call perpetuity so that they can be reminded of the star
>teachers who have given so much to this planet.

>Whenever mankind has made a leap forward that leap has come because mank
nd
>has been guided and because mankind asked for assistance. Much informati
n
>is transferred to your planet in a variety of ways. Each and every one o

>you is on the verge of having great volumes of information come through
o
>you. It is up to you whether you are going to believe this. It is up to
ou
>whether you are going to call out and ask for a teacher and ask for the
>assistant that you are needing in this moment to bring about your life's
>work and fulfillment. You are all here for really important reasons.

>Eventually you each are going to be coming into contact. That may occur
n
>a variety of ways. You have heard us say over and over again that there
re
>many dimensions of experience. Each dimension of experience has its own
>validity. As third dimensional man who would call "real" only one portio

>of its existence, when everything you perceive and everything you feel i

>real.

>Prepare yourselves and wait in each and every moment for more informatio
,
>for a gentle love to come through and relinquish your fear. You may thin

>it is easy for us to say to relinquish your fears. It is easy to say. Yo
r
>fears have to do with a multitudinous buildup that has come from your
>childhood. What your ideas of the unknown may be, what your ideas of saf
ty
>may be and what is in store for you.

>At first, you may be startled when one comes into your presence and
>resonates four or five feet off the ground and gives you teachings for a

>hour or two. Yet, if that is your experience, you have called it to
>yourself.

>This year you would find that each month, each one of your moons, will
>multiply itself exponentially prior to the month that you have just
>experienced. So whatever it was that you have experienced in your month
>that has just passed, you will find that it will double itself in the ne
t
>month. It will continue to build. You are creating for yourselves a mass
ve
>acceleration because you are each calling it to yourself.

>You had best, if you wish to take our advice, keep yourself in balance a
d
>by all means, clearly call out through prayer or through intention,
>whichever feels more correct to you, call out to what you are desiring t

>manifest and utilize the great gifts that are coming your way. You each
>have selected yourselves and you each have placed yourself in an
>opportunity to grow beyond your wildest dreams. We are here as always to
>assist. We encourage you and we say to you that there is a pathway of jo

>and glory that lies in front of you and it is all that you need to know.
>Move yourself towards this.

>QUESTION: Will we begin eating a lighter and lighter diet as we learn to
>rejuvenate ourselves and learn to take more energy out of the ethers and
>less out of our physical surroundings?

>PLEIADIANS: You've got it. For those of you who like food, it is not tha

>you need to let it go. It is not that it is going to be a great sacrific
..
>It is that you will find that there are alternative ways of being and yo

>will find that those habits that you had you are no longer in desire of
>participating within.

>You will find, many of you, that as you begin to oxygenate the system mo
e,
>that you would bring about a greater state of energy and that as you beg
n
>to bring about this greater state of energy you will find that it is not
>necessarily coming from the food source, that it is coming from light, t
at
>it is coming from meditation, it is coming from being aligned with your
>thoughts and the changing of your beliefs and that the body does not hav

>to be based on what your nutritionists say you need to have to keep aliv
..

>QUESTION: What would be the first step we should take in this rejuvenati
n
>process?

>PLEIADIANS: Oxygenation. Oxygenation flushes out what is unnecessary and
>keeps the body full of light. Breathing is the main thing. There are
>additives that are also oxygenators. There are many assistants to bring
>about oxygenation [that you can buy].

>The breath has not been focused on enough. All of these other things
>certainly assist you but breathing is your key. Whatever it is that you
re
>going to add to your lives, utilize the great process of breathing. Each
>man on your planet has been given all that is needed to come to a
>completion. It is you, yourselves, who go about inventing things to assi
t
>this and there is nothing wrong with this. We applaud your creativity. B
t
>you, yourselves, each have the ability and your breathing is one of your
>greatest tools.

>There are many techniques. There are many journeys that can be taken by
>utilization of the breath alone. Utilizing the breath and the oxygenatio

>process in conjunction with taking substances that have oxygen within th
m,
>particularly if you participate in foods that are rich in oxygen, you ar

>enhancing a lightness of being. You are activating an energy form that
>brings about greater states of awareness.

>QUESTION: You began the evening talking about contact. I feel that I hav

>been contacted but I'm not sure whether it was real or not.

>PLEIADIANS: What do you think we're going to say that you were imagining
>it? What have we been speaking to you about imagination? What have we be
n
>speaking to you about the various realms of experience? They are
>legitimate. You had your wits about you and you were told at that moment
to
>receive. Many of you are surrounded on a continual basis. It is up to yo

>to have your wits to receive.

>Some of you will begin to feel pressure on your body, to feel pressure o

>your skin. There will be slight hintings. There will be feelings around
ou
>in the atmosphere that the air has changed. There will be a difference i

>the light molecular structure in front of you. This is all a portion of

>variety of energies that are attempting to communicate with you. More th
n
>[the fact that] these entities are attempting to communicate with you is
>that you, yourself, have broken down your barriers as to your definition

>of what you think is possible. You are moving more steadfastly into what
>you would call fourth dimensional experience which allows you to be feel
rs
>and not thinkers.

>QUESTIONS: What about our fears of contact?

>PLEIADIANS: There are very few existing on the planet at this time who a
e
>fearless. So, first of all, relinquish any judgment you may have of
>yourself or of others who are facing their fears. One of the best ways t

>overcome fear is to acknowledge it. Where you trick yourselves and you t
y
>to pretend that you are not afraid, you hold on and you hide deep inside
of
>your being this intimate feeling that you will not admit because you thi
k
>it is a weakness. When you lay it out in front of you and you say, "I am
>afraid," you are willing the issue to a head and you are asking that you
>understand this fear and you are asking for assistance in this area.

>When you have fear, particularly of contact, you are fearing that there
s
>going to be the unknown, the "x" factor, that is going to come in and
>affect you in a way that you will feel out of control with. We have been
>saying that your world is a result of your thought manifestation. This i
ea
>works in all of the realms of experience.

>Your intention about the kind of experience you wish to have can literal
y
>change in the moment. If ever you are finding, whether it be in third,
>fourth or fifth dimensional experience, that you are drawing to yourself
>something less than what you are choosing, then you must learn to believ

>that you can vanquish that in an instant whether it be a dream or one wh

>would come to literally attack you. Your powers are such. Your thoughts
>will send out a wall of protection and you can use a thrust of energy th
t
>will stop whatever is coming your way.

>When you are feeling a fear and if you wish to stop the experience and y
u
>are not prepared for it, state this and put up around yourself a shield
f
>light and know that that shield of light is as real as any wall that you
>would build with cinder blocks. This is what you are teaching yourselves

>that your thoughts form your world.

>The large majority of you will not be in need of protection because you
>have the ability to understand that you would draw to yourself the highe
t
>of light energy. If you are desiring contact, ask that the contact come
n
>a time when you are safe, when you are comfortable, that you not be
>startled.

>Define how you wish contact. If you are going about saying, "I want
>contact. I want contact," what are you going to get? If you want contact
in
>a certain condition in certain parameters of experience, state this. "I
>would like to have..." and define in the affirmative how you would be
>designing your experience. "I would enjoy contact with one who would
>approach me with love and that I immediately sense this and that I
>immediately move into a state of receptivity. I [want to be] contacted b

>one whose physical visage and vibration is something that I am comfortab
e
>with." It is up to you to design how adventurous you wish your experienc
s.
>There will be a time when you will be gathering so many experiences that
we
>will be pushed to the background waiting our turn to come in.

>There are many, many contacts going on on the planet at this time. Your
>universe is teeming with life. Just because one has certain abilities do
s
>not necessarily mean that they are of the highest intentions. When you a
e
>bringing an understanding of teaching into your life and energies from t
e
>outside, whether they be extraterrestrial or whatever fashion or form th

>higher energies come to you, discernment is most important.

>The way you discern is by the feeling in the center portion of your body

>How is it that you feel? Are you feeling in comfort? Are you feeling
>uplifted? What is the message that is being given? Are you being pointed
to
>your own abilities or are you being asked to do something that does not
>feel comfortable to you? All of these are keys.

>Most definitely on your planet you are going to be experiencing great
>confusion because it is all going to break loose very shortly. All that
as
>been covered up, all that has been kept from you is going to come out in
>this decade and you are all going to have the opportunity to fine tune
>discernment and to align yourself with energies human and otherwise that
>will afford opportunities for your growth. It is you that, through your
>intention, will decide how that growth will be.

>[Most of] the beings coming from the skies at this time are those to
>enhance the spiritual understanding of mankind. Mankind will learn to
>resonate with his own beauty and great desire to become one with the hig
er
>realms. Do not call those who come from the sky aliens. Realize that we
re
>your ancient heritage and that many have come to assist you. Many have c
me
>to reawaken and allow you to move beyond this time that you have been
>greatly sequestered by your own energies. We congratulate you on your
>journeys into yourselves.

>The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star syste

>the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from
>another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed
a
>tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that
e
>are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient fami
y
>because many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new
>experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are here as ambassadors from another
>universe to help Earth through her transition from the third dimension t

>the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors
f
>awakening, remembering and knowing.
>     Barbara J. Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel fro

>North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of
>the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many
>seekers looking to be all that they can be. Barbara has channeled at
>various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru and in
>Germany. She is planning trips to Egypt, Japan, Australia and Europe in
>1990.
>     You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections, P. O. Box 6521, Raleig
,
>NC 27628.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mgreenwe
From: [e-mail] (Martin Greenwell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: that wasn't meant to be posted, sorry!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 07:24:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 2


Previous post was not meant to be a post so don't bother reading it okay!
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve
From: [e-mail] (Steve Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 07:31:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group
Lines: 22

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:

>This is a report on one of the highlights of the 1992 MUFON Symposium
>in Albuquerque, NM, July 11-12.

>In his talk on abductions July 11, Budd Hopkins reported on the case of
>Linda, whose abduction has been confirmed by several witnesses. The
>following is a synopsis of his report:

[... deleted ...]

>Dan described
>himself and Richard as "undercover policemen" who would not publicly
>come forward for fear of damaging their careers.

So it's been confirmed by witnesses who can't be checked up on. That's handy.




                            Steve
                            [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh
From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 09:05:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Everbody: I have been requested by a few people to explain how to
>use telepathy. I will try to do that in a future posting if all goes
>well.
>John Winston.

There's no need to.  You've already told us all the details by telepathy.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!ucsu!ucsu.Colorado.EDU!buckley
From: [e-mail] (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K2 Report - Part 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 08:43:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <q!7l=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
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Nntp-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu

In article <q!7l=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (sm) writes:
>>
>> On  June  15,  1989,  a  Phoenix  Project  Survey  Team  made  a
>>preliminary  investigation to locate the site and origin  of  the
>>mysterious  radio  transmission.  The  site  was  located  and  a
>>preliminary investigation was completed.
>>
>Just what kind of "mysterious radio transmission" was this? There *are*
>a lot of bizarre things on the shortwave: people reading strings of
>seemingly random numbers, beacons that repeat the same Morse Code
>letter over and over, etc. These things are officially a "mystery",
>but they clearly have something to do with intelligence gathering. A
>few years back, one East Bloc agent was caught Red-handed (pun very
>appopriate), writing down encoded numbers being broadcast from
>East Germany. (This was mentioned in "Puzzle Palace", a
>book about the NSA).
>
>So to jump to the conclusion that "space aliens" are involved just
>because you heard something strange on the shortwave is, well, perhaps
>a tad premature.
>--
Not as premature as their bemoaning the lack of capital to remain on
the investigation.

Good scam guys. I loved the part about camping out. You and I both know
that the forest service has rules against people camping outside of
designated areas. They would have to put up the fence to follow that rule
thus verifying your premise of a coverup.

What were the names of the Rangers involved? I assume that if they don't
match the duty rosters of the park that these rangers had an off-color
that you forgot to mention for brevities sake. :-)
>
>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>
>    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
>     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
>     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
>     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
>     table like a card cheat."
>                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
>                                                  Spring, 1992)
>
Charles Buckley        With a name like Buckley, I have to read politics
                            Believing it is another matter
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!ucsu!ucsu.Colorado.EDU!buckley
From: [e-mail] (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 08:52:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>WELL, IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!! I went just now to pick up Joan at her
>apartment, and the REAL Joan came out to greet me, but then she went back
>upstairs while I waited downstairs in my car, and then the CLONE came back
>and got in the car

Does this happen about once amonth? I think they got my girlfriend too.

>...I left her at "her" doctors office, and came back her
>here disgusted as hell to write this...I can tell from the voices, they
>are distinctly different in tone...This is a mess...
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet

Charles Buckley            Is Perot a grey with a lousy ear job?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Bill Moore ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 22:13:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 13


 > Does anyone know if the Bill Moore that posts here is the same
 > Bill(Author/Doubleagent)Moore that helped release the MJ-12 Docs?
 > His mail keeps bouncing back.Just curious...........

This is not the same Bill Moore.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!ucsu!ucsu.Colorado.EDU!buckley
From: [e-mail] (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: MILLER BEER & ALIENS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 09:08:12 GMT
References: <mad-celt.710583613@odin> <[e-mail]> <mad-celt.710627082@odin>
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In article <mad-celt.710627082@odin> [e-mail] (Andrew Patrick Booth) writes:
>[e-mail] (Tripp Wallin) writes:
>
>>  Thats funny last night when me and a couple of greys were sitting around
>>  the house discussing the fate of humankind I would have sworn they were
>>  drinking Keystone (it seems aliens have bad taste in alchol.).
>
>Well if they were getting it for free, then it's OK.  Free beer tastes better.:)
>As to my reference to all intelligent beings drinking Bud, I was kidding.  I
>don't think any mass produced domestic beer is that good(but it's cheaper).  I
>like Carlsberg beer myself (brewed in Copenhagen).  Sam Adams is good too.  I
>haven't had the chance to try any of the previously listed local beers.
>
>Has anyone offered a Grey a Pabst Blue Ribbon or Red White and Blue.  I'm
>curious about how bad their taste in beer is. :)

Pretty bad. I prefer mine with favre beans and a nice Kiante.
>
>I wonder when Greys will start the bar hopping scene. ;)
You haven't been to any bars in Boulder Colorado have you?
>--
>| Andrew P. Booth "Mad Celt"              | "Read the SOUND News & Arts!"  Now |
>| [e-mail]               | available from [e-mail] |
>| SOUND News & Arts Newspaper and Netzine | and gopher (odin.unomaha.edu).     |
>| Newspaper Distribution Manager          | - "Have you had a paroxysm today?" |
Charles Buckley              I knew there was something sinster about
                             the Grey Panthers
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From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 05:09:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Revpk: One of the sources for imformation about having children
> with the services of a man is in the Occult type book called Finding
> the Third Eye.  This book got a friend of mine kicked out of the
> Big C.
> John Winston.

        Well, that's certainly a detailed and informative source on the
details of female reproductive biochemistry.

        Second, this book wouldn't be by T. Lobsang Rampa, wouldn't it? Last
I heard, he'd been exposed as a guy who'd never been to Tibet in his life,
and made up most of the material in his book.

        Third, the 'big C' is, last I checked, cancer.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!ucsu!ucsu.Colorado.EDU!buckley
From: [e-mail] (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Santa?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 09:59:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (BBB) writes:
>
>   I read in a recent publication that the Santa Clause myth started with a UFO
>sighting one Christmas eve in the mid 1800s. The story of the jolly fatman was
>made up to keep the witnesses for being persecuted. But parts of the story betray
>the origin. The sleigh and the deer discribe a fleet of craft flying in
>formation. The Ho Ho Ho was the sound that these craft made as they made their
>way across the sky. These aliens most likely even landed on a roof where they
>could have easily slid down a chimney.
>
>
>BBB

Don't let them fool you. The guys over on Alt.Satanism say that Satan Claws
has a different origin. Those people were satanists all the awy thru :-).

Charles Buckley                    If this becomes a grey's bar - I'm leaving
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!aiai!ken
From: [e-mail] (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 11:18:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.bizarre
Organization: Bugs-R-Us
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

#  Dear Everbody: I have been requested by a few people to explain how to
#  use telepathy.  I will try to do that in a future posting if all goes
#  well.

I always wanted to know.  But don't post it.  Transmit it to me
telepathically.

-- Ken "This could mean an end to BT's outrageous profits" Johnson



--
                          ////  Ken Johnson, A I Applications Institute
We won't be meeting again ////       80 South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN
On the slow train,        ////                 E-mail [e-mail]
On the slow train.        ////     phone [phone]  fax [phone]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 12:48:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 91
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7166 sci.skeptic:27371

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Carl J Lydick) writes:
|In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes
:
|>[...]
|>Would you have questioned an assertion the battery stack in my flashlight
|>measured 6.327 Volts DC?  Would you have doubted the 0.1921 Ohm resistance
|>of my audio system's speaker wires?  Unlikely; you would have "assumed" I
|>used a calibrated DVM or a Wheatstone bridge for those measurements.
|
|I most likely would've assumed that we were dealing with someone who accepted
|numbers off a digital instrument as accurate (and precise) simply because they
|were produced by a digital instrument.  In particular, I would've doubted that
|you'd used appropriate techniques to ensure that the contact resistance betwee
n
|your ohmmeter and your speaker wires was < .0001 ohms.

Touche'  :-)

As Joe Friday would have said: "Just the facts, Ma'am."

The credulity of many (most?) people when "rules of evidence", traceability of
[instrument] calibration, etc. are ignored simply amazes me; it seems people
are selective in their beliefs, often ignoring known physical realities (esp.
when events are interpreted out of context).

For example, consider the recent furor concerning the Mars "face."

I wondered what all the fuss was about, so I recently went and retrieved the
original "raw" NASA data files 35A72 and 70A13 from the Viking Orbiter series.

DON'T ask me to send you these for they are large:

    -rw-r-----  1 thad         16915 Jul  7 05:15 35.face.pgm
    -rw-r-----  1 thad         16915 Jul  8 06:02 35.face.pgm.enhanced
    -rw-r-----  1 thad           533 Jul  7 05:15 35a72.label
    -rw-r-----  1 thad       1270237 Jul  8 05:46 35a72.pgm
    -rw-r-----  1 thad       1277952 Jul  7 05:26 35a72.rect
    -rw-r-----  1 thad         16915 Jul  7 05:26 70.face.pgm
    -rw-r-----  1 thad         16915 Jul  8 06:01 70.face.pgm.enhanced
    -rw-r-----  1 thad           588 Jul  7 05:26 70a13.label
    -rw-r-----  1 thad       1270237 Jul  8 05:47 70a13.pgm
    -rw-r-----  1 thad       1277952 Jul  7 05:35 70a13.rect
    -rw-r-----  1 thad          5214 Jul  7 05:36 mars-faces-ftp.info
    -rw-r-----  1 thad         20715 Jul  7 05:11 marsface.gif
    -rw-r-----  1 thad          3783 Jul  7 05:11 marsface.txt
    -rw-r-----  1 thad          3791 Jul  7 05:36 readme

The *.rect files are the "raw pictures" 1204 x 1055 x 8 which I processed for
viewing using the PBMplus suite on both fast Sun and SGI graphics computers.

After viewing the "face" in the context of its surroundings, there's NO way I
can believe it represents an intelligent artifact.

Why?

Consider first the data context of 35A72:

    10571600 L 1
    CVO75 1B  PICNO= 035A72        C
    FILTER 4 (CLEAR) EXP   34 MSEC  FGD 111
    CFSC  26588045       OET-GMT  76 207 15 25 14
    TPER +00 12 05
===>    CRNG=  5239 KM  HFOV=   55 KM  VFOV=   50 KM    SCL=   46  M/PXL
    CSMEAR=  2.5 PXLS
    SMRDIR= 216 DEG FROM UP     HRA 278 DG
    CNOR AZ 154 DG SUN AZ  88 DG S/C AZ 323 DG
    INA 79 DG  EMA 10 DG        CPHA  86 DG
    SUNS LS=  99.2 DG  EDR= CN1244 01  MAX-D=
    CLAT   C= +40.90  UL= +41.14  UR= +40.28  LL= +41.52  LR= +40.65
    CLONG  C=   9.52  UL=   8.76  UR=   9.28  LL=   9.77  LR=  10.28

"CRNG" is camera range, "HFOV" and "VFOV" are horizontal and vertical fields
of view, respectively, and "SCL=46 M/PXL" is the scale: 46 meters for EACH
pixel ("dot").

The "face" is roughly 50 pixels across at its widest: 50 x 46 = 2300 meters
or approx 7500 feet (1.43 miles) across.  Kinda big, eh?  :-)

The real "glitch" is the SHADOW cast by the "face".  It's similar to those of
other nearby readily-identifiable mountains and in NO WAY suggests the profile
of anything even remotely resembling a humanoid face.

The GIFs posted to the net and the pictures printed in the tabloids, however,
all show the "face" devoid of its surroundings.  If you see the entire picture,
you, too, will recant any belief that Greys have carved their "Mount Rushmore"
or "Crazy Horse" for posterity!  :-)

Perhaps we'll have some better pictures of that region in several years.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!widener!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Jul 92 06:18:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 21
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[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
> in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
> been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
> system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
> John Winston.

        But it doesn't work that well. Y'see, just about all of those
children conceived without having been fertilized by amale gets nailed to a
coupla two-by-fours sometime around their 33rd birthday.

        It's a genetic thing, I guess. Ya had to have been there.

        Mel Brooks was.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 13:49:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Kisicki:
The last good information I got was from a back issue of UFO Universe
magazine and it said the men in black are from Sirius and I'm serious.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary
From: [e-mail] (Ed McCreary)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Mars, was Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:09:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Netnews Account)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Lines: 19
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7169 sci.skeptic:27375

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:

.....lot's of stuff deleted about the Martian "face."...
>
>Perhaps we'll have some better pictures of that region in several years.
>
>Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]

Not that long.  The Mars Observer launches in 62 days on Sept. 16.  It
will arrive at Mars in August of 1993 and then spend 4 months manuvering
into a mapping orbit with a period of 2 hours.  It will then map the planet
for a Martian year or 687 Earth days.



--
[e-mail]     Computers are like Old Testament gods;
Me? Speak for Compaq?  Yeah, right.   lots of rules and no mercy.
"By this time my lungs were aching for air..."               Joseph Campbell
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:04:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7170 sci.skeptic:27377

Dear Thad: Your father was quite a gentleman.  He took me on one of his
field trips and it was a success. He told me about his conversation with
Jacques Valee' and was concerned because he was not able to
convience Mr. Valee' of very much.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:40:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Part 2. Now that you have a person who has the same frequency that
you do you make a mental image of the funnel in your mind. This should
be big on your end and small on the other end. Close your eyes and
think of the one you want to send the message to, and put their face
in the end of the funnel as you are looking through it. As you are
looking at your friend through the imaginary funnel think and say
outloud a statement like, "Dear friend I am thinking of you". Then
you change your mind and put it on something else. This allows the
thought to leave your magnetic field and projects it out towards your
friend.  Next check with your friend and they will probubly have been
thinking of you at that exact time. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:09:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7172 sci.skeptic:27379

Dear Thad: Thanks for taking the time to try to explain something
to us.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:51:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Part 3. The next experiment to do is to start on a automobile trip
over to see one of your friend.  Before you get over there send them
a telepathic message saying you are coming over to see them. Do this
several times each time taking you mind off the message and putting
it on the speedometer for a second (but don't have a wreck).  When you
get there you friend will be startled and usually say, "This is a
miracle, I was just thinking of you and here you are".
The next experiment is done with a phone, send a message, phone to see
if they got it. Next send a telepathic message and have them pick up
the phone and tell you that they picked up the message. The last step
is to not use the phone, just talk to them telepathically. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:31:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10775 alt.alien.visitors:7174 sci.skeptic:27381

Dear Tom: This one is for you, an explanation of how to use telepathy.
First of all you need an open mind. I can only show you how to do
something if you truely want to let this information come into your
conciousness.  The human mind is tuneable just like the human aura
changes colors when certain thoughts are manifest (when your blue or
sad the aura is blue in color). Red is excitement or hate. White is
love. The mind's frequency goes up the higher your thoughts are. Love
is highest, hate and lust are the lowest. You needs to find someone who
has the same frequency that you do to get good results to begin with.
This can be your friend who thinks the same words or song that you do
at the same time you do. End Part 1. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:56:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7175 sci.skeptic:27382

Dear Brian: If may be of interest to you that my teacher or Guru was
there and it was quite a experience to hear his explanation of it.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:08:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 10
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Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is
a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his
books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
pass on anyway.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!wupost!gumby!destroyer!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:13:44 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Max: M------- stands for morphodite.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:18:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]
 mton.edu><5+9lv <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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Dear Jason: I may be a lot of things but joking, Honest Jason. I take it
you do not understand the fine art of Sealing the Aura. It's a good
to keep people from bugging you.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Jul 92 07:13:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 24

[e-mail] (Joe Citro III) writes:

>
>         If you trust such t.v. shows as "Sightings" there is some evidence
>         of MIB's in Canada and Russia.  The MIB's apparently look very
>         similar no matter where they are located.  This seems to possibly
>         suggest a massive multi government coverup on UFO's.
>         Whatcha think??

Could be.  Does anyone know why they have everything black (clothes,
cars)?  Wouldn't this attract a lot of attention?  Hmm.. could be
Mennonites?  :-)

NOTE To all: Today, talk show host Jenny Jones is having some people
who've been abducted by aliens on.  Could be interesting..

   //                          Though we may be the last in the world
 \X/ A proud Amiga User.       We feel like pioneers
   e  r  a  s  u  r  e         Telling hopes and fears
  - - |)epeche Mode - -        To one another.  - M.L. Gore

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:28:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <62207@cup.p
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (alan smith)
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Lines: 17
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X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
>this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is
>a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
>in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his
>books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
>write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
>body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
>for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
>pass on anyway.
>John Winston.


Musta freaked out his wife somethin awfull.  "Hoooney, I'm hooome."

Big Al.  Disclaimer:  I never was a tibetan monk.  Neither was I a frog,
crane operator, or piece of quartz.  So get off my back!
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:29:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]
 rtal.com><[e-mail]><1992Jul12.190909.19041@n
 ewserve.cc.binghamton.edu><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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Dear Bruce: I'm not an expert on the UK and the National Enquirer has
become a little too tame for me. I'll try to get some sources for
information about people having children without the service of a
male later.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:32:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <1992Jul15
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Dear Drew:
Why can't you be true?
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Crunchy Frog)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:40:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>OK Tom, later I'll give it the old college try to show everyone how to
>use telepathy.

I knew you were going to say that :)

>John Winston.

C Frog
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From: [e-mail] (Dale Redd)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 15:41:00 GMT
References: <cw#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Dear Revpk: One of the sources for imformation about having children
>with the services of a man is in the Occult type book called Finding
>the Third Eye.  This book got a friend of mine kicked out of the
>Big C.
>John Winston.

The Big C???  I guess you'll have to explain yourself again, John.

--Dale
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 16:06:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Anonymous NNTP Posting)
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (My name is...) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
>>>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
>>>process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation.
>>
>>I'd call it "Crackpots in crock pots."
>
>Ya know, I really should appoligize for this.
>
>Anybody who can spend an afternoon sipping wine in a hot tub with a bunch
>of looney NewAge women, get _them_ to pay muchos moola for a session, and
>then GET THE WHOLE THING WRITTEN OFF AS A BUSINESS EXPENSE...
>
>This man has a lot to teach all of us!
>
>(Hey, Don--ever thought of selling franchises?)

You know, it takes a lot to rile me, but it's finally getting to that point.
I know you guys meant all this in a humorous way, but frankly, I'm getting sick
and tired of these remarks, which I find disparaging to women and advocating
the kind of "New Age" sex scams I despise the most (or pretty close to the
most).  If you have any desire to keep an open exchange of ideas, beliefs,
thoughts, etc. between people of both sexes, post your sexist remarks somewhere
else.

                                     Ellen
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 17:02:30 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
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Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
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    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Max: M------- stands for morphodite.
>John Winston.


Why didn't you just write out "Morphodite" then?  To save two letters?

Big A-.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria
From: [e-mail] (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 17:45:08 GMT
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  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of Thu, 16 Jul 92 08:13:44 PDT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

   Dear Max: M------- stands for morphodite.
   John Winston.

Ahem.  The word ``morphodite'' appears in none of the dictionaries I
have to hand (Collins 2, Collins Cobuild, Collins-Robert
English<->French, American Heritage, and Webster's New Collegiate).
Given the context, I think you mean H------- for Hermaphrodite.  (I'm
sure one of your reincarnations of Alcibiades will be happy to explain
it to you.)

Did you ever wonder why guys who claim telepathy, reincarnation, and
contact with spiritual masters and aliens can't even write simple
English?

-30-
Bob

``Che stronzi!'' -- Federico Fellini
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (J. Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 13:54:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Huh?
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Thad P Floryan writes:
>...I also learned that Jacques and Dr. Hynek participated in the
>computerization of the unique twin-dome observatory at the school
>where I did some undergrad studies: New Mexico State University...

Just a nit:  Lindheimer Astronomical Research Center at
Northwestern U. (where I did my ungrad astro and where I knew
Dr. Hynek) is a twin-dome on "stilts"...
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 19:20:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Dear Kisicki:
>The last good information I got was from a back issue of UFO Universe
>magazine and it said the men in black are from Sirius and I'm serious.
>John Winston.


        Yes John  we  know  your  serious.    Just like we know that Gary
        Stollman is serious... Seriously mentally impaired that is... 8^)


        Steve Food_for_the_Grays
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From: [e-mail] (Rogue Agent)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 18:57:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Max: M------- stands for morphodite.
>John Winston.

    Sure you don't mean hermaphrodite?  Don't have a dictionary handy,
but I've never heard of a 'morphodite'.  Hmm - just grepped through
/usr/dict/words, it's not there.  But then neither is 'hermaphrodite' :-).

    RA
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A question for John_-_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 20:27:37 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Indiana University
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Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu

Where you, by any chance, Hassan B. Multu in a past net?
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 20:36:24 GMT
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  <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (J. Johnson) writes:

| Thad P Floryan writes:
| >...I also learned that Jacques and Dr. Hynek participated in the
| >computerization of the unique twin-dome observatory at the school
| >where I did some undergrad studies: New Mexico State University...
|
| Just a nit:  Lindheimer Astronomical Research Center at
| Northwestern U. (where I did my ungrad astro and where I knew
| Dr. Hynek) is a twin-dome on "stilts"...

Nits are MEANT to be picked!  :-)

Just out of curiousity, when was LARC built and commissioned?  Are the
"stilts" a form of shock isolation or something mandated by the topology?

The obs. at NMSU was already in service when I was there during the early
1960s and I was led to believe it _was_ unique [ then ].

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
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From: [e-mail] (Mr. Arthur J. Musgrove)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 20:59:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Mr. Arthur J. Musgrove)
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In a previous article, [e-mail] () says:

>To  Julian Porter:
>You ask how Omnec Onec the lady from Venus was able to live on Earth
>if she was from Venus. Most of the people on Venus exist in the fourth
>dimension we are mostly in the third.  She went through a process that
>lowered her vibrational frequency that allowed her to operate in our
>reality.  It's sort of like the catapillar that looked up at the beautiful
>butterfly in the sky and  said, "You'll never get me  up in one of those
>things.
>John Winston.
>
   I have missed a few thinkg in this group (I just got here). Who is the
woman claimg to have come from venus? Am I missing something.
   If she was from venus, the, because of different organic structure, she
would be able to prove where she was from.

                            AJ

Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath
From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Hollywood gets KGB UFO Data
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 21:31:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
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Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes in part:
|>
|> disclosed that members of the KGB are currently negotiating
|> with Hollywood film companies for the rights to their UFO data.
|>
|> This raises some serious questions about the handling of this potentially
|> important data.
Now let me see.  When they were the hated enemy, everything they said
was lies.  Now that they are a trusted ally, or at a least servile
and dependent ally, everything they say is true.  This make sense.
Just about as much sense as most UFOlogy.  At least Hollywood might
make something entertaining out of this nonsense.

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!taco!hes
From: [e-mail] (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 20:24:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Max: M------- stands for morphodite.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^
  When I was a child, this was street slang for "hermaphrodite", and
was considered a "fighting word".  (Not that anyone knew what it meant,
but it sure was a bad thing to be called!)  Perhaps this explains
John Winston's usage.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!bolivia!peterson
From: [e-mail] (Bad Bull Bill)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:----NEWS FLASH----
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 21:33:27 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
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Organization: SSC
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Nntp-Posting-Host: bolivia.ssc.gov







You Fools! Perot is a grey.
How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
Why did he suddenly decide to run?
Why is he so secretive?
Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes Pres?
Why is he so scared of the press?
Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
Who is he really reporting to?

I think it is clear what his plans were.
He was going to gain the Presidency... Clear the way for the grey invasion...
And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.


Vote for Clinton. J(G)ennifer can vouch for him not being an alien.


Bad Bull Bill
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From: [e-mail] (George Matthew Rice)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ----NEWS FLASH----
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 22:29:14 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bad Bull Bill) writes:
>
>You Fools! Perot is a grey.
>How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
>Why did he suddenly decide to run?
>Why is he so secretive?
>Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes Pres?
>Why is he so scared of the press?
>Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
>Who is he really reporting to?
>

Why are you so paranoid ?

Matthew
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (MAC)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 22:02:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Amy E Schermerhorn) writes:
>>
>> I believe that alt.alien.visitors should be renamed to alt.john.winston
>> since about 50% of the messages are from him.
>>
>> Anthony Clifton
>
>Well, have you some input to give?
>
>Jason



Speaking of input you half wit, cock sucking, piece of shit where is yours.
The only input you have is when that hag of a girlfriend of yours straps
on a dildo and hate fucks you in the ass.

Since your emergence on t.b you have offered absolutely nothing of any
worth in your posts.  Why do you insist on proving that you are about as sharp
as a butter knife in post after post on the net?

Now repeat after me: I, Jason Reese am a loser for life and will not post
anything to t.b ever again.  When I, Jason Reese, feel tempted to post something,
I will eat my own shit to remind me of what others feel like when they read
my posts.  Now, be off with yourself, shitferbrains.



Have a USENET day,

    M
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!apple!mumbo.apple.com!lefty.apple.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Lefty)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 23:15:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
> this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is
> a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
> in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his
> books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
> write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
> body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
> for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
> pass on anyway.

T. Lobsang Rampa's numerous books on Tibet are incredibly amusing to anyone
who actually knows anything whatsoever about the subject.  Unquestionably,
the man was a complete fraud and a foolish one at that.

--
Lefty ([e-mail])
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 00:23:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 2

Dear Steve: Thanks for the flame.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 00:36:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Here's some information about MIBs.  I probubly have posted this before
but someone may have not read it.  MEN IN BLACK.
In the past a certain number of people often come around and ask people
who would see space craft all sorts of questains, Then after they got
the information they would threaten them with everything in the book
if they ever talked about it to anyone.  They sometimes would even
kill the person if they didn't shut up.  They were called the Men in Black
because they wore dark suits and drove dark colored cars. I recently
got some information about these people. They are from the Sirius Star
System although most of the good type beings from that system such as
as Kadar---End Part 1.  John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 00:48:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Part 2---refer to these Men in Balck's planet as a rather unsightly
planet and from their frame of reference they do not claim them to be
their own, but they must acknowledge that they are even within their
dimension, located within the Sirius system. Our government is
cooperating with Sirians now and the question was asked; What is the
power that makes the entire government have to go along with them?
They have weapons sources (I must be circumspect) that are believed
by the powers that be on this planet (Earth) to be absolutely dominating.
In other words the government believes that it is looking down the
barrel of a very big gun. The Sirians are in the second dimension
soon------End of Part 2. John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 00:58:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Part 3.---to go into the third dimension. We are in the third soon
to go into the fourth. The Sirians are trying to keep us from going
into the fourth dimension.  The negative Sirians are  involved in these
cattle mutilations because of their desirae to create a species that
can perpetuate itself in the harshest of conditions. The people from
Zeta Reticuli aren't doing the mutilations but the primitive Zeta
Reticulians which are from what we would now consider to be from the
past(please don't ask me to explain that because I can't JW.) are
helping the Sirians. One of the beings that was interviewed while he was
asleep is called B'Zal. You talk about a tough dude. He would make the
worse person on Earth look like Mr. Robert (on the kids TV show).J.W.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:04:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear C Frog:
I know you didn't mean what you said, but if you did you would have
been one of the first people on the Net to have learned to use telepathy.
So you aren't so you didn't.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:08:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7205 sci.skeptic:27417

Dear Lefty: I would like to tell you Lefty your Right but in my opinion
you are wrong.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:11:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7206 sci.skeptic:27418

Dear Henry S.: You may be right in my use of that word.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:18:09 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]>
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Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7207 sci.skeptic:27419

Dear Bob: Thanks for the flame.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:16:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7208 sci.skeptic:27420

Dear RA: I meant Morphodite. If you would use the word Hermaphrodite
around the people I was raised with they wouldn't know what you were
talking about. I stand corrected the proper spelling is Hermaphrodite.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:21:06 GMT
References: <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 2
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7209 sci.skeptic:27421

Dear Big A: Must I have a reason for everything.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:43:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
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Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:7210 talk.bizarre:66014

Dear Burt:
I'll give you comments all of the consideration that they deserve.
John Winston. I'll have to confess I can't figure out whether your
for me or against me.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 01:56:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
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Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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If have not noticed I finally got some of the information about Ley Lines
on the collection of Ley Line before this one.
John Winston.
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!rutgers!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!milton.u.washington.edu!cruiser1
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day (Reprise)
Summary: Another look
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 20:09:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 157
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10780 alt.alien.visitors:7212 sci.skeptic:27424


The topics being discussed in under the article title "Re: July 4,
1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day" sure have evolved and
changed from when I originally posted the notice of the event! Anyway,
I give special thanks to those who participated, and helped affirm
that from now on, psychic experiences and paranormal happenings are to
be seen as the norm, and not the exception, in this our new world!
Remember gang, we aren't physical beings having spiritual experiences,
but spiritual beings having physical experiences! :)

Anyway, for those who are interested, yes Arasia and Antahkarana and
co. were at Golden Gardens park in Seattle at 9pm PDT on the 4th.
Actually, the Global Independence wasn't the only thing we were doing
that day. Below are a few examples of some other related things people
were doing around then:

--

INVITING THE EXTRATERRESTRIALS TO LAND!

Many of us desire to have conscious extraterrestrial encounters or
visitations, or would like them to formally land on Earth so that we
may have open contacts instead of the rare, individual landings that
are taking place now. As we know, the Intergalactic Confederation of
Planets has their own version similar to Star Trek's "Prime Directive"
which means that they don't interfere with the course of human
evolution. However, if enough of us know or believe that they are out
there, then they will have no further reason to stay hidden, since
open landings won't alarm groups of people or harm the human race as a
whole. In addition, it would help to actually welcome them to come and
land, for one doesn't drop by a friend's house uninvited.  Therefore,
allow me to present a petition that was passed out on Independence
Day, which people could sign. (This concept was similar to an earlier
event sponsored by Antahkarana on 11-11-1990, in which the ETs were
invited to land, with representatives for every nation of the world.)

Petition to the Intergalactic Confederation - Global Independence Day:

"I do hereby affix my signature in approval to the aforementioned
document, fully understanding the commitment contained herein. I align
my will with the Greater Will of the Creator God in obtaining
permission of the people of Earth for the higher frequencies of the
interstellar commands to visit Earth by landing and beginning
interaction with all Earth peoples."

(Lines listed for Signature, Country, and Date)

--

A UNIVERSAL GREETING.

While we are on the subject of extraterrestrial landings, how many
times have you been minding your own business when suddenly a ship
lands in your back yard or you get beamed aboard one? Suddenly you
find yourself in the presence of aliens who may or may not look like
you, and may or may not be able to speak your language or communicate
with you in some manner. Since you can't seem to communicate with one
another, this leads to awkward and embarrasing situations! (Yes there
is thought transference, but then we have the issue of proper
frequency alignment.) Therefore, I offer the following "universal
greeting", a series of sign language moves guaranteed to be recognized
throughout the Intergalactic Confederation (at least by those beings
with bodies and who have two hands to do them with) as a way of
signifying ones intentions of and alignment with peace, oneness, and
the greater reality. It makes a great icebreaker when you and some ET
are staring at each other wondering what to do next. Note: If such an
experience hasn't ever (consciously) happened to you before, it
doesn't mean you are in any way less spiritual than those who have had
such experiences, of course, so don't worry. Learn these moves and
share them, so we can be ready for our friends when the time comes!

(Incidentally, this reminds me of an excerpt from the Billy Meier case
I posted earlier, in which Billy was approached by a weird looking
alien who was requesting help. The alien approached him, coming out of
the woods, with its palms forward in front of it, i.e. the first
movement below, to indicate he wasn't hostile. Billy later tried to
communicate with it telepathically but without much success. If Billy
had known the universal greeting, it would have gone a lot smoother!)

"I offer you Peace -
  (Face palms forward, elbows bent)
I offer you friendship -
  (Cup hands palm to palm, elbows bent)
I offer you Love -
  (Draw hands forward from heart)
I hear your needs -
  (Cup hands behind ears)
I see your beauty -
  (Point to eyes with forefingers, then open arms)
I feel your feelings -
  (Arms cross chest, fingertips to shoulders)
My wisdom flows from a higher Source -
  (Move right hand, palm down,
   from head past face to meet upfacing left palm at chest, fingertips forward)
I salute that Source in you -
  (Palms together in prayer position)
Let us work together.
  (Fingers interlocked as two-handed fist)"

--

INVOCATION TO UNITY-

(This is often reciting at the beginning of meetings of Antahkarana
and other spiritual groups:)

I am a Christed being.
I am in Unity with Spirit.
I am a Christed being.
I am in Unity with all that is.
The light of my own being shines upon my path.
I am a Christed being.
I am in Unity with all that will be.
I hold the shining Light of the Source within my heart.
I walk in Unity with Spirit.
I laugh in Unity with the Source.
I Love in Unity with my fellow beings.
I am a Christed being.
I am a bridge between Heaven and Earth.

--

AN AFFIRMATION OF GOODWILL:

We, the people of goodwill, convinced:
 o That there is potential for good in every human being.
 o That the human family can live together in right relations and at peace.
 o That right relationship between peoples and nations and between humanity and
   the earth is the key to world peace and progress.)

Recognising that:
 o The only way to guarantee a future of peace and progress for the whole human
   race is for enough men and women of goodwill to accept responsibility for
   the establishing of right relations, and to work actively with the
   principles of unity and goodwill.

Affirm our intention:
 o To practice goodwill in all our relationships, in all daily affairs and in
   our attitudes and actions towards those of other nations, ethnic groups,
   religions and social backgrounds, and towards the earth.
 o To support and co-operate with those in positions of influence and
   responsibility who use goodwill and reason, instead of force and coercion.
 o To encourage, publicise and work for an attitude of practical goodwill in
   local, national and international groups and institutions.

Presented compliments of: Antahkarana, The Star People Connection -
501 N. 36th St. Seattle, WA 98103 (206)-634-2017.

--

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|    Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen    |    [e-mail].    |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr
From: [e-mail] (Jon Roland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Hollywood gets KGB UFO Data
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 02:54:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 30
NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Robert McGrath) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes in part:
>|>
>|> disclosed that members of the KGB are currently negotiating
>|> with Hollywood film companies for the rights to their UFO data.
>|>
>|> This raises some serious questions about the handling of this potentially
>|> important data.
>Now let me see.  When they were the hated enemy, everything they said
>was lies.  Now that they are a trusted ally, or at a least servile
>and dependent ally, everything they say is true.  This make sense.
>Just about as much sense as most UFOlogy.  At least Hollywood might
>make something entertaining out of this nonsense.

This is an amazing revelation! For you to know that the KGB data is
all nonsense you would have to have studied all of it, which means
you know *too much* ;-) Just what is your line of work anyway?

We should not dismiss such data until serious investigators have had a
change to examine it in as close to its original form as possible. The
quality of the data may be poor, or it may contain some nuggets that
will lead to some useful insight. If Hollywood gets it first, serious
investigators may never have a chance to do that.

---

[e-mail], [e-mail]
Jon Roland
Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A,
Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!cmcl2!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!tom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Sullivan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Jul 92 16:17:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Administration)
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Lines: 19
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Wed, 15 Jul 1992 19:40:15 GMT

>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 1992 19:40:15 GMT, [e-mail] (Kevlar) said:
Kevin> Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov


Kevin>      The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
Kevin> phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
Kevin> turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
Kevin> perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying shades
Kevin> from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the sandbox
Kevin> to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
Kevin> these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?
Kevin> Do these "circles" indicate the presence of extraterrestrial beings
Kevin> here on earth? Has anyone else had a similar encounter? Are there
Kevin> "Grays" nesting near my home?
Kevin>

There's a type of lawn disease (a fungus, I believe, but I'd need to
look it up) that kills grass in circles.  That's probably what your
circles are caused by....Tom
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: phobufo.jpg, part 1/1 UFO-pic-from-PhobosII-probe
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 23:17:10 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.binaries.pictures.d
Lines: 1066


Hi,
this is the scanned picture of one of the last frames Phobos2 send to
Earth before going malfunction !

It is an infrared exposure with 8 seconds duration, so it is
overexposed, You only see a white surface, no surface detail !

The UFO is approximately 15 and 1/2 miles long !

Thanks to Don Ecker for making this publically available and also
thanks to Kean Thomas, who send me a photocopy for scanning.

Please send Your view about it to my email adress below.

Could this be any CCD chip error, like someone on the net stated ?

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]



#!/bin/sh
#
# This is a self-extracting shell archive of the binary file "phobufo.jpg".
# Created on Fri Jul 17 01:16:57 MEST 1992 by post-bin, revision 2.2.
#
# To decode with /bin/sh, remove everything before the /bin/sh and feed
# each piece as input to /bin/sh.  When all the pieces have been
# processed, the archive will automatically concatenate the pieces and
# uudecode them to produce phobufo.jpg.  If successful, it will remove all
# uuencoded pieces.  Alternatively, the archive(s) may be processed with
# no editing by the unshar program.
#
# If you do not have /bin/sh or unix, you may decode by removing
# everthing before/after the lines beginning with the word BEGIN/END,
# respectively, in each piece.  Then concatenate the pieces in the proper
# order and uudecode.
#
part=1
pfile=phobufo.jp
file=phobufo.jpg
psize=61352
sed -e '/^BEGIN/d' -e '/^END/d' << \End_of_Section > $pfile.$part
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#*__9

end
END-------------- phobufo.jpg ------------ part 1/1 ---
End_of_Section
size=`wc -c $pfile.$part | awk '{ print $1 }'`
if [ $size != $psize ]; then
    echo Length mismatch for uuencoded part $part \($size != $psize\).
    exit 1
fi
echo $file, part $part extracted.

if [ `echo $pfile.[0-9]* | wc -w` = 1 ]; then
    echo All uuencoded parts of $file extracted, uudecoding...
    cat $pfile.* | uudecode
    if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
    echo Error encountered when uudecoding pieces...
    exit 1
    fi

    echo $file successfully uudecoded.  Removing uuencoded pieces.
    rm $pfile.[0-9]*
fi
exit 0
--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7247 sci.space:31972 alt.paranormal:5411 sci.skeptic:27491
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 23:22:50 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: phobos
Keywords: phobos
Lines: 35

Hi,

I have posted the much discussed UFO-pic from the phobos 2 probe into

alt.binaries.pictures.misc     and   alt.alien.visitors   newsgroups !

Get the uuencoded JPEG pic from there !


It is the scanned picture of one of the last frames Phobos2 send to
Earth before going malfunction !

It is an infrared exposure with 8 seconds duration, so it is
overexposed, You only see a white surface, no surface detail !

The UFO is approximately 15 and 1/2 miles long !

Thanks to Don Ecker for making this publically available and also
thanks to Kean Thomas, who send me a photocopy for scanning.

Please send Your view about it to my email adress below.

Could this be any CCD chip error, like someone on the net stated ?

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Santa?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 22:24:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 12

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (BBB) writes:

| [...]
| I read in a recent publication that the Santa Clause myth started with a UFO
| [...]
| way across the sky. These aliens most likely even landed on a roof where they
| could have easily slid down a chimney ...

                                   \      |      /
.... and right into your stewpot! -- *S*P*L*A*S*H* --
                                   /      |      \
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7249 sci.skeptic:27496
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 05:30:11 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>DON'T ask me to send you these for they are large:
>
>    -rw-r-----  1 thad          5214 Jul  7 05:36 mars-faces-ftp.info

If that one contains information on where one can ftp the images, could you
send that?  It's not very big.

>The GIFs posted to the net and the pictures printed in the tabloids, however,
>all show the "face" devoid of its surroundings.  If you see the entire picture,
>you, too, will recant any belief that Greys have carved their "Mount Rushmore"
>or "Crazy Horse" for posterity!  :-)
>
>Perhaps we'll have some better pictures of that region in several years.

Sooner than that, if all goes well.  If I recall correctly, transit time for
the Mars Observer is supposed to be about a year, and the launch is scheduled
for September 16, so allowing for a little in-orbit checkout (somehow, I
suspect they'll be a little more careful checking out the Mars Observer while
it's still reachable than they did with Galileo), we should be getting pictures
back by late 1993.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7250 alt.conspiracy:16885
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!mfm0
From: [e-mail] (martin frederic melhus)
Subject: Re: Fuck the CIA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Stollman
Sender: [e-mail] (News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 07:43:32 GMT
Lines: 14

Gary -

     Here's a little ditty I think you might need to remember:

     A prozac a day keeps the voices away.

     (I don't advocate prozac; it just fits the rhyme scheme.
      So, scientologists, please keep your flames to yourselves.)

--
                          | You have all the time from when you remove the |
     Martin F. Melhus     | card(s) from your hand until you put it (them) |
 [e-mail] | on the pile to say "Last Card".  If you don't, |
                          | take your two. - Hidden texts, Book of MauMau. |
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7251 sci.space:31982 alt.paranormal:5412 sci.skeptic:27501
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 07:50:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>It is an infrared exposure with 8 seconds duration, so it is
>overexposed, You only see a white surface, no surface detail !
>
>The UFO is approximately 15 and 1/2 miles long !

How did you determine the size of the artifact?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7252 sci.space:31985 alt.paranormal:5413 sci.skeptic:27503
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Subject: Phobos-UFO-pic,what do You think about it ?
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 08:43:08 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Lines: 17

Hi,
I have just posted the Phobos2 Ufo-picture in JPEG format in
alt.binaries.pictures.misc

What do You all think about it ?

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!wupost!ukma!kherron
From: [e-mail] (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 12:51:48 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Lines: 39

[e-mail] (Jon Roland) writes:

>It is hereby proposed that the newsgroup alt.alien.visitors be split and
>renamed as follows:

>alt.ufos    - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
>alt.aliens    - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
>alt.circles    - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
>alt.mutilations    - strange mutilations
>alt.coverups    - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments

Put them under one common name, eg by using alt.alien as an anchor:

    alt.alien.ufos
    alt.alien.aliens    (or .misc?)
    alt.alien.circles
    alt.alien.mutilations
    alt.alien.coverups

It'd be nice to continue to use alt.alien for this purpose since it's
never going to go away anyway; however, I'll admit these names sound a
bit forced and you might prefer "alt.ufos" as the head and make the first
one "alt.ufos.misc".

>This proposal is made because ... splitting them may
>encourage people to not prematurely attribute all these subjects to aliens.

I think you're overestimating the effect USENET can have.  These things
have been associated with extraterrestrials for a long time; I don't
think one word in the newsgroup name is going to have much effect.

In any event, these categories do have a common theme and should go within
the same sub-hierarchy.  Alt has too many top-level names as it is, and
you *do* want people to be able to find the groups, after all.
--
Kenneth Herron                                           [e-mail]
University of Kentucky                                      [phone]
Department of Mathematics           "Thanks to the magic of the slow-motion
camera, we can now show you how ugly the inside of someone's mouth can be."
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 06:21:37 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 10

Dear Amiga man or person:
I think the show Sightings had a lot of truth in it.  The Men in Black
seem to not be at home in their physical bodies
in that they look and talf very unusual. Sometimes it is our government
people who come around and do the questioning but they dress pretty
normal.  They love to run you off the road nearly kill you and then
tell you they'll do it again if you keep talking.  One of the researchers
lost a leg that way about talking  about government cover ups. So far
the same person using the same car has run him off the road.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 06:28:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Barry: John Keel is still around and is writing in Fate magazine
and enjoy him.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 06:31:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Joseph: I don't remember any accounts of MIBs in other countries
but they probubly are exuiopportunity harassers.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.politics.perot:1616 alt.alien.visitors:7257
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Ed Gruberman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ----NEWS FLASH----
Message-ID: <aw=m=[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 14:10:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bad Bull Bill) writes:
>
>
>I think it is clear what his plans were.
>He was going to gain the Presidency... Clear the way for the grey invasion...
>And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.
>
Tough thing to do do when your not in the race.  (Perot dropped out
yesterday)

Cary

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"



Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7258 alt.paranormal:5418 sci.skeptic:27507
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell
From: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock)
Subject: Re: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: phobos
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 14:18:10 GMT
Lines: 74

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stefan
Hartmann) writes:
> Hi,
>
> I have posted the much discussed UFO-pic from the phobos 2 probe into
>
> alt.binaries.pictures.misc     and   alt.alien.visitors   newsgroups !

   No, you posted a scan of a newspaper article in which the picture
you claimed to have posted has been adulterated three times.  Once when
it was turned into newsprint, once when it was scanned, and once when
you JPEG'd it.

>
> Get the uuencoded JPEG pic from there !

   I did  :-(      \       /
                  -->     <--
                   /       \

                    _______
                   /   U   \

                                [Mr. Yuck (tm) Poison Control Center]

It looks like an ad for potato-on-a-stick.  It also has so little detail that
you can't tell the potato is Phobos, why the heck to you think the computer
glitch looking thingy is a UFO?

> It is the scanned picture of one of the last frames Phobos2 send to
> Earth before going malfunction !
>
> It is an infrared exposure with 8 seconds duration, so it is
> overexposed, You only see a white surface, no surface detail !
>
> The UFO is approximately 15 and 1/2 miles long !

   Oh?  I second Carl's question; how can you tell?   As you note there are
no details available to help one determine relative distance and scale as
the photo is pretty much a reverse silouette.

> Thanks to Don Ecker for making this publically available and also
> thanks to Kean Thomas, who send me a photocopy for scanning.
                                       ^^^^^^^^^

   Shit.  It was adulterated FOUR times?  I thought that black gridwork on the
upper part of Phobos looked like toner from a poorly maintained copier.

> Please send Your view about it to my email adress below.
>
> Could this be any CCD chip error, like someone on the net stated ?

   I don't know but "It's a UFO" seems to soundly violate the priciple of
parsimony.  CCD chip error is easier to believe.  Next time howsabout
a post that says "here's a picture that some people claim is a UFO" and
leave the 15+ miles stuff out.  If the CCD error hypothisis is good, it
is under a centimeter :).

   Posting a photo that bad together with claims that appear to be insanely
beyond the available facts to sci.skeptic just hardens the hostillity that many
net.skeptics feel toward what we have come to call "saucer nuts".  As someone
said (while storming out the metaphorical door of sci.skeptic yesterday)
skeptics tend to flame quite a lot; this is the result of frustration with a
torrent of obviously worthless claims.  Not wrong (who could tell), but
worthless in the sense that the claims are both unneccesary and uncheckable.
This alleged Phobos UFO is a great example.  I could have made that photo
myself in a weekend with an illustration program in the form it arrived at my
workstation.

> Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
> email to: [e-mail]

Dan
[e-mail]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7259 sci.skeptic:27508 alt.conspiracy:16895
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,clari.news.gov.corrupt
Subject: CIA,NSA,FBI,to release secret docs?
Keywords: What ever happened to this story?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 14:50:06 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Hello anybody:

A few months ago the press released a story that the CIA,NSA,& FBI were
going to release thousands of secret/top secret documents. The CIA & NSA
structures were supposed to be changed because the cold war was basically
over. The reason I bring this up here is that alot of the documents that
were hidden for NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS concerning UFOs should  be
released.

As we who have read "Clear Intent" all know, just the BLACKED out documents
in this book would be reason enough to pursue this further.

As usual the press seemed to just drop the ball on this.If I am wrong
please let me know.I have not heard a peep out of the press or the
government about this matter.

Rod


--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!homer.cs.mcgill.ca!ipkh
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Looking for the right "unexplained phenomena" newsgroup
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Originator: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail] (Netnews Administrator)
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 14:14:26 GMT
Lines: 22

I'm looking for a specific newsgroup which deals with "monsters", i.e.
Loch Ness, Yeti, etc...  I've read that they've decided to scan the
whole lake with some high tech sonar and would like to keep updated in
the search for Nessie.

Any help would be appreciated.

Please e-mail to address below.  I do not usually read this newsgroup.
Sorry.


=============================================================================
Jack Kwok Hung Ip         | McGill University
[e-mail] | Montreal, Quebec, Canada
=============================================================================
DM: "The fighter successfully slays the ancient red dragon that was guarding
     the treasure.  So what does the fighter do?"
Fighter: "He carefully walks toward the treasure."
DM: "As the fighter approaches the pile of treasure...<roll of dice>...
    he falls down a 10' pit...<roll of dice>...and breaks his neak.
    What does the wizard do?"
Wizard: "The wizard calls the DM an asshole."
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 19:11:53 CST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 30


Hello!

[e-mail] (Kevlar) writes:

>
>      The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
> phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
> turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
> perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying shades
> from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the sandbox
> to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
> these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?
> Do these "circles" indicate the presence of extraterrestrial beings
> here on earth? Has anyone else had a similar encounter? Are there
> "Grays" nesting near my home?

Uh oh.  There are lots of these little circles all over my neighbourhood!
Small alien craft landing on our lawns?  No, I can't remember exactely
what it is.  Some kind of weird fungus that kills the grass or something
like that.  No need to fear.  :-)

   //                          Though we may be the last in the world
 \X/ A proud Amiga User.       We feel like pioneers
   e  r  a  s  u  r  e         Telling hopes and fears
  - - |)epeche Mode - -        To one another.  - M.L. Gore

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:8872 alt.alien.visitors:7263
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!kimbark!elle
From: [e-mail] (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.config
Sender: [e-mail] (News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 14:48:08 GMT
Lines: 21

>It is hereby proposed that the newsgroup alt.alien.visitors be split...
>
>alt.ufos    - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
>alt.aliens    - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
>alt.circles    - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
>alt.mutilations    - strange mutilations
>alt.coverups    - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments

Do you know what the word "hierarchy" means?  (Hint:  the above "split"
would require five new ones.)

As it is, your "alt.coverups" looks no different from alt.conspiracy;
it makes no sense to have an alt.alien.* AND an alt.aliens; the names
demonstrate no clear distinction between "ufos" and "aliens"; and the
name "alt.circles" is one of the most non-specific I've seen in some time.
(I'm not going to touch "alt.mutilations" with a ten-foot pole.)

Followups set back to alt.config, which is where this discussion belongs.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!bolivia!peterson
From: [e-mail] (BBB)
Subject: Re:  alt.alien.visitors.John_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: bolivia.ssc.gov
Reply-To: [e-mail] (BBB)
Organization: SSC
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 16:15:34 GMT
Lines: 11


    Could somebody PLEASE repost how you can author-kill before you enter
the group. When I do it in the group it only marks him as read.


Thanks.
Bad Bull Bill
---------------------------
If you kill a mime, do you need a silencer.
-Steven Wright
---------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re:  alt.alien.visitors.John_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 16:58:53 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (BBB) writes:
>
>    Could somebody PLEASE repost how you can author-kill before you enter
>the group. When I do it in the group it only marks him as read.

While you are in alt.aliens.visitors, type <control>k ("k" while you
hold down the control key).  You will now be editing your KILL file for
alt.aliens.visitors.

Add this line to the end of the KILL file:

/John_-_Winston/h:j

Make sure that there is a blank line at the end of the file.

This will not kill entries until the next time you read the group.

BTW, you still have to download the articles, if you are reading this
over a modem.  The KILL file can't scan for which articles to KILL
until the article is actually in your machine.  Then, as you say, it
will mark them as read.  That is what "junk" means.

The syntax of the command works like this:

/foo/ means scan for the string "foo".

/foo/h means scan the whole header, not just the subject line.

/foo/h:j means when you find a match, junk the article.

--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7266 sci.skeptic:27513
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!tke
From: [e-mail] (thomas.j.epstein)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: AT&T
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 17:14:31 GMT
Lines: 21

On 12 Jul 92 22:10:00 GMT, [e-mail] said, among other
things:

> ...less than one and (sic) ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
> been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
> system in case all males were killed just like chickens.
> John Winston.

Is there some reason that the human race has a self-protection system
which will work in case all males were to meet their doom in the same
manner as do chickens?  Does this mean that if all males run around
in a frenzied sort of way while flapping their arms (this being done
after their heads have been removed) and drop to the ground in a pool
of chicken blood and feathers, a female or females will become pregnant?
Wow! I must have been sleeping *that* day in health class!  Does this
work on an individual basis? I know John said *all* males, but the
chance that we may be able to offer new hope to some desperate, child-
less couples should not be ignored.

Tom ----------------------------------- [e-mail] -------

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!sdd.hp.com!wupost!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!sbgrad4!mfader
From: [e-mail] (Michael Fader)
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sbgrad4
Organization: CONTROL
References: <y7#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <![e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 17:28:43 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>[e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>
>>In article <y7#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>
>>| [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>| ...
>>|
>>| >  (Just, curious, does anyone know what recipies the greys use on *us*?) :)
>>|
>>| I have one of their cookbooks, but have only been able to translate the title
>>:
>>| _To_Serve_Man_.  :-)
>
>>Hah!
>
>>That's the title and theme of one of Rod Serling's episodes for his classic
>>show "The Twilight Zone."
>
>It was originally a short story written by Damon Knight in the 50s.
>
>BTW, you get a gold star for being the first to catch the reference. :-)
>--

I may be mistaken, but isn't it from "The Outer Limits" ?

(Sort of like the credibility of this newsgroup. But it DOES save the cost
of a subscription to the National Enquirer.)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10783 alt.alien.visitors:7268 sci.skeptic:27516
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!milkwy.enet.dec.com!ed_eck
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 17:38:52 GMT
Lines: 57


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (My name is...) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>>Here is the Connecting Link Magazine Issue 11 Pleiadian article.  A great
>>>>advertisement for my one hour, eighteen session, hot tub, hyperventilating
>>>>process.  I call it Cellular Memory and DNA Activation.
>>>
>>>I'd call it "Crackpots in crock pots."
>>
>>Ya know, I really should appoligize for this.
>>
>>Anybody who can spend an afternoon sipping wine in a hot tub with a bunch
>>of looney NewAge women, get _them_ to pay muchos moola for a session, and
>>then GET THE WHOLE THING WRITTEN OFF AS A BUSINESS EXPENSE...
>>
>>This man has a lot to teach all of us!
>>
>>(Hey, Don--ever thought of selling franchises?)
>
>You know, it takes a lot to rile me, but it's finally getting to that point.
>I know you guys meant all this in a humorous way, but frankly, I'm getting sick
>and tired of these remarks, which I find disparaging to women and advocating
>the kind of "New Age" sex scams I despise the most (or pretty close to the
>most).  If you have any desire to keep an open exchange of ideas, beliefs,
>thoughts, etc. between people of both sexes, post your sexist remarks somewhere
>else.
>
>                                     Ellen



Anyone, male or female, who believes that sitting in a hot tub for an afternoon
can "activate their DNA" or refresh their "cellular memory," I would call...
well, "loony" isn't quite the right word...perhaps "gullible" or "naive."

As Don only offers his "treatment" to women (per a previous posting not quoted,
perhaps you missed it), I would expect to find women rather than men in
his hot tub.

I would bet that if Don were to make his treatment avalable to men as well as
women, one would find an equal numbers of men and women having their DNA
reactivated. And, pending evidence to the contrary, I would consider them _all_
loony...um..gullible.

Stating that I would expect to find only women in Don's tub is about as
sexist as saying that I would expect to find only women in the YWCA.

And the rest is a not too subtle comment that Don's postings never fail to
mention the services he offers--for an appropriate fee. Also a commentary
on US tax laws, and the "get self employed and get rich" mentality.

Ed E. (who would like to get his own DNA reactivated, currently feeling several
years beyond his own Hayflick limit...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!andorra!kevin
From: [e-mail] (Kevlar)
Subject: Re: Complete incineration
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevlar)
Organization: SSC
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 18:16:39 GMT
Lines: 15





    In regards to <[e-mail]>

        Would someone please hand Jason Reese a large fire
  extinguisher!!

       He's down....

       No standing eight count....he's down......

       Total and complete toast!!!!!!

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 17:36:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

To coincide with the MUFON Conference last weekend in Alberquerque
Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner's new book "Crash at Corona" was
released. This week Stan is doing a lecture tour around New Mexico.

At the MUFON Press Conference at Alberquerque there was a heated
exchange of views between Kevin Randle, representing a local Roswell
paper (also author with Don Schmitt of Crash at Roswell) and Stan.

Steve.
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 17:39:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Barry: John Keel is still around and is writing in Fate magazine
> and enjoy him.
> John Winston.

John Keel should also be speaking at the IUN conference in Sheffield
on the 15th and 16th August

Steve.

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7272 sci.skeptic:27519
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: The Third Eye on Tuesday (was: Human Parthenogenesis?)
Message-ID: <t3=mty=[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:14:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lefty) writes:
>
>T. Lobsang Rampa's numerous books on Tibet are incredibly amusing to anyone
>who actually knows anything whatsoever about the subject.  Unquestionably,
>the man was a complete fraud and a foolish one at that.
>

Oh, I don't know. He sure made a *bundle* off them. Sounds to ME like he
must have been pretty smart!


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

    "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed
     by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no
     charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No
     professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the
     table like a card cheat."
                               - Martin Gardner  (writing in "Free Inquiry",
                                                  Spring, 1992)

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7273 alt.config:8878
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.config
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!sugar!taronga!peter
From: [e-mail] (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 12:25:07 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>It is hereby proposed that the newsgroup alt.alien.visitors be split and
>renamed as follows:

>alt.ufos    - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind
>alt.aliens    - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions
>alt.circles    - crop circles, unidentified ground markings
>alt.mutilations    - strange mutilations
>alt.coverups    - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments

How about, before you create 5 top-level groups, think up a nice common
name that these groups are a subset of and put them together:

    alt.*.ufos
    alt.*.aliens
    ...

This will simplify the administration and use of your new subhierarchy.

I would also suggest continuing the crossposts to alt.config.
--
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  [phone]/1032
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Ed Gruberman)
Subject: Re: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <#5=[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 19:09:22 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 33

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 1992 19:40:15 GMT, [e-mail] (Kevlar) said:
>> Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov
>
>
>>      The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
>> phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
>> turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
>> perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying shades
>> from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the sandbox
>> to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
>> these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?
>> Do these "circles" indicate the presence of extraterrestrial beings
>> here on earth? Has anyone else had a similar encounter? Are there
>> "Grays" nesting near my home?
>>
>
>There's a type of lawn disease (a fungus, I believe, but I'd need to
>look it up) that kills grass in circles.  That's probably what your
>circles are caused by....Tom

Hello, Tom?  I think Kevin is making a _joke_.  Notice the bit about
the _round_ sand box?

---------------

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.



Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7275 sci.skeptic:27523
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith
From: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (alan smith)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <c_#[e-mail]> <1992Jul16.170230.8085@mnemosyne.
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:58:10 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Big A: Must I have a reason for everything.
>John Winston.


No, but you DO have this wierd habit of writing w--- without anything
after the first letter but a buncha "---"s, so that we have to guess at
what you wrote.  Not really the best way to communicate.

I know, "You should talk, B.A., You can't communicate that well either."
The practice of writing like t--- just struck me a little wierd, is all.

Big Al.  Sorry if I flamed you.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!wsu-cs!uts.cc.wayne.edu!cms.cc.wayne.edu!EIVERSO
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 19:34:45 GMT
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Titanium Knight) writes:

>
>[e-mail] (Joe Citro III) writes:
>
>>
>>         If you trust such t.v. shows as "Sightings" there is some evidence
>>         of MIB's in Canada and Russia.  The MIB's apparently look very
>>         similar no matter where they are located.  This seems to possibly
>>         suggest a massive multi government coverup on UFO's.
>>         Whatcha think??
>
>Could be.  Does anyone know why they have everything black (clothes,
>cars)?  Wouldn't this attract a lot of attention?  Hmm.. could be
>Mennonites?  :-)

MIB are slaves to fashion

Hmmm...
I thought black would be less noticeable

Men In Plaid just doesn't have that mysterious quality to it either
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <j5=[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 19:21:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <y7#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 37

[e-mail] (Michael Fader) writes:

>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>>
>>>In article <y7#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>>
>>>| [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>>| ...
>>>|
>>>| >  (Just, curious, does anyone know what recipies the greys use on *us*?) :)
>>>|
>>>| I have one of their cookbooks, but have only been able to translate the title
>>>:
>>>| _To_Serve_Man_.  :-)
>>
>>>Hah!
>>
>>>That's the title and theme of one of Rod Serling's episodes for his classic
>>>show "The Twilight Zone."
>>
>>It was originally a short story written by Damon Knight in the 50s.
>>
>>BTW, you get a gold star for being the first to catch the reference. :-)
>>--

>I may be mistaken, but isn't it from "The Outer Limits" ?

I thought it was Twilight Zone; now I'll have to go check my guide. :-(
--

Anson Kennedy                                                   [e-mail]
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

"If you don't watch the violence,    \           "If I had been the Virgin Mary,
you'll never get desensitized to it."  \                I would have said 'No.'"
-Bart Simpson                            \  -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10785 alt.alien.visitors:7278 sci.skeptic:27525
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue
From: [e-mail] (Rogue Agent)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day (Reprise)
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 19:01:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>
>A UNIVERSAL GREETING.
>
>While we are on the subject of extraterrestrial landings, how many
>times have you been minding your own business when suddenly a ship
>lands in your back yard or you get beamed aboard one?

All too often...but I always forget my camera, dammit!

>                                                        Suddenly you
>find yourself in the presence of aliens who may or may not look like
>you, and may or may not be able to speak your language or communicate
>with you in some manner. Since you can't seem to communicate with one
>another, this leads to awkward and embarrasing situations!

I used to have this problem, before I started hanging around Dr Who.
But then we had a fight over whether I'd stolen his sonic screwdriver
(I hadn't).  So I bummed a ride on the _Heart_of_Gold_, and Ford Prefect
gave (sold, in exchange for the sonic screwdriver) me a babelfish.  So
now I'm pretty much set for life, unless the fish dies.

    RA
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10790 alt.alien.visitors:7279 sci.skeptic:27530
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day (Reprise)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 17:33:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear RA: Now don't you dare say anything bad about Dr. Who.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10791 alt.alien.visitors:7280 sci.skeptic:27531
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day (Reprise)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 17:46:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Walter D.: I have an uncle named Walter D. I like the name but
if you like I'll call you Cruiser.  You must be the one that posts
the material about July the 4th.  The lady who founded your organization
speaks very highly of you and I thank you for posting this information.
You are truely making the world a better place.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7281 sci.skeptic:27532
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 17:53:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <c_#[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3


Dear Arsmith: I'll have to agree dashes are for the birds.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7282 sci.skeptic:27533
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Third Eye on Tuesday (was: Human Parthenogenesis?)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 17:56:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <t3=mty=[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Mr. Sheaffer: I believe you'll find that Lobsang didn't make
all that much money on his books and lived a rather modest life style.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7283 sci.skeptic:27534
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:00:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Tom: Your logic is something else.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:07:50 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Dear Steve:
It's good to hear that Stanton Friedman's book Crash at Corona is out.
I once mentioned to Stan that I didn't believe exactly like he did and
he would probubly call me and my friends a bunch of kooks. He mentioned
that he had work with some pretty weird people before.  Anyway he
sticks with what he is doing and came out with the book.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: e: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:11:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

That posting should have read, If you have.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:24:28 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Steve: Thanks for the information about about John Keel.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:22:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear MIB: That's pretty good how you got the name MIB on your posting.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:44:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear tffreeba: I'm afraid you have the advantage of me. I vaguely
remember the name Hassan B. Multu.  Maybe you can enlighten me.
I have the feeling I'm being put on and flamed.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:  alt.alien.visitors.John_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 18:52:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Steve: Did someone mention my name in fain?
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 02:33:12 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: I wouldn't worry, they are about 60 years behind in tech.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 18

[our government is]
> cooperating with Sirians now and the question was asked; What is the
> power that makes the entire government have to go along with them?

They are one of the major power-brokers in the mid-east now
that saddam has been busy rebuilding his country.

> They have weapons sources (I must be circumspect) that are believed
> by the powers that be on this planet (Earth) to be absolutely dominating.

Yes, I think they have been copying saddams super-gun.

> In other words the government believes that it is looking down the
> barrel of a very big gun. The Sirians are in the second dimension
> soon------End of Part 2. John Winston.

I'm sure Bush will deal with them too before his term is out.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 02:38:20 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: men in black
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17

> In the past a certain number of people often come around and ask people

Always three. they always travel in three's.

> who would see space craft all sorts of questains, Then after they got
> the information they would threaten them with everything in the book
> if they ever talked about it to anyone.  They sometimes would even
> kill the person if they didn't shut up.  They were called the Men in Black

I never heard of them killing anyone. they just harrass.

> because they wore dark suits and drove dark colored cars. I recently

Black suits and black cars, thus, men-in-black(not to be confused
with men-at-work).

Watch it, such dis-information could land you in a black car.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Men in black (MIB's)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 03:18:41 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: John Keel
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> > Dear Barry: John Keel is still around and is writing in Fate magazine
> > and enjoy him.
> > John Winston.

thanks.
>
> John Keel should also be speaking at the IUN conference in Sheffield
> on the 15th and 16th August
>
Does he write books anymore? The last book I read was titled:
_The Mothman Prophecies_. The content had nothing to do with
prophecies, but much to do about these large hairy creatures who
had a foul odor about them and gave off evil vibes.

barry--
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7293 alt.config:8884
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 03:37:06 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 20

>
> How about, before you create 5 top-level groups, think up a nice common
> name that these groups are a subset of and put them together:
>
>     alt.*.ufos
>     alt.*.aliens
>     ...
>
> This will simplify the administration and use of your new subhierarchy.
>

Or : alt.ufo.ships
     alt.ufo.occupants
     alt.ufo.real-goofy-stuff
     alt.ufo.encounters
     alt.ufo.dimensions
     alt.ufo.telepathic
     alt.ufo.books

etc.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7294 sci.skeptic:27541
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh
From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested party)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <cw#[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 05:06:12 GMT
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Kym: I'll give you a very controversial one. Did you know that
>in less than one and ten thousand births on Earth the female has not
>been firtilized by a male? The human race has a self protection
>system in case all males were killed just like chickens.

In article <cw#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>John, can you please provide even the *slightest* evidence that this is
>true, that "human parthenogenesis" does in fact occur? Preferably a
>solid medical source, like "Journal of the American Medical Society"
>or "Lancet," and not the "Weekly World News."

The cover-up is a conspiracy.  The ruling patriarchy is vainly attempting to
extend its days and delay the inevitable take over of the world by women.  For
if information such as this got out, a method of controlling and invoking this
rare mode of reproduction would be developed and women -- seeing the ultimate
redundancy of the male gender -- would rebel, take over, enslave men throughout
the world and systematically exterminate them.  Ultimately, the entire human
race would be all-female, all Lesbian, and all reproducing by parthogenesis
or a slightly modified version involving the merger of 2 ova.

It would spell doom for the male gender.  Fortunately (for us) none of this
information has been publically revealed by any credible source.

------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: All assertions made in this article are false.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7295 sci.skeptic:27543
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh
From: [e-mail] (Mark William Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
References: <[e-mail]> <c_#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 05:20:53 GMT
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Major Havok) writes:
>   It is possible to trick the female's egg into 'believing' that it's been
>fertilized. It will then begin to grow as a normal, fertilized egg cell, but
>since it has not received any 'foreign' DNA, all the cell can do is to make
>a genetic duplicate of the mother (though some traits might be slightly
>different). This would hardly seem to be a self protection method though,
>since by creating a genetic duplicate of the mother, nothing is really done
>to enhance the 'genetic pool'. This could be a minor factor in accounting
>for why there is a slightly greater tendency for a female child to be born
>rather than a male child.

There are more males born than females (we're talking about the US here).
Females don't catch up to males in number until (currently) around the
age of 20-40.

The numbers go in favor of women past 50, and women live longer.

Women have only been living longer than men since the life expectancy has
been going up, and it's all a dynamic thing.  I bet when the life expectancy
settles to a stable level (if it ever will), men will reach the same level
about 20 years later and parity will be back.

So in reality, women probably don't live longer than men, but rather
experience increases in a population's life expectancy earlier.

Before the 40's when there was nearer parity, the birth advantage of men
persisted, and there were more men in this nation than women.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7296 talk.bizarre:66310
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 11:16:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Brian: If may be of interest to you that my teacher or Guru was
> there and it was quite a experience to hear his explanation of it.
> John Winston.

Is his name, by any chance CARRASSO?  I hear that he has quite a
following amongst a certain kind of person.

Jason
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7297 talk.bizarre:66311
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from a
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 11:18:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
> this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is
> a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
> in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his
> books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
> write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
> body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
> for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
> pass on anyway.
> John Winston.

Dear John,
    I am very interested in all you have to say.  I, too have had
out of mind experiences, and I have met the Englishman you talk about.
He is now disguised as an Albanian and living in Brixton, South London

Jason
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7298 talk.bizarre:66312
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 11:22:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><1992J <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.bizarre
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Bruce: I'm not an expert on the UK and the National Enquirer has
> become a little too tame for me. I'll try to get some sources for
> information about people having children without the service of a
> male later.
> John Winston.

Dear John,
    I have heard of virgin birth before, and met one of the virgins.
Also one of Britains leading newspapers leading newspapers "The Sunday
Sport" had a major article about a woman giving birth to lizards recently.

Jason
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7299 talk.bizarre:66313
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 11:24:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.bizarre
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Kisicki:
> The last good information I got was from a back issue of UFO Universe
> magazine and it said the men in black are from Sirius and I'm serious.
> John Winston.

No, they're from Rigel-40 and I'm rigel-forty about that.

Jason
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7300 talk.bizarre:66314
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Jul 92 11:27:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: talk.bizarre
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear RA: I meant Morphodite. If you would use the word Hermaphrodite
> around the people I was raised with they wouldn't know what you were
> talking about. I stand corrected the proper spelling is Hermaphrodite.
> John Winston.

Dear John,
    I have a question: What is a Hermaphrodite?  Do I need one?
Where can I get one from? What will it do for me?

Jason
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch
From: [e-mail] (Ray Rosch)
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1992 10:04:22 GMT
Lines: 18


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>Dear Mad Celt:
>Many times the truth is put forward in sort of a silly way, especially
>in merry ole England. Tell the truth and be on the next bond fire.
>Stone Hendge is one of the points of maximun energy.  Mt. Shasta is one.
>Although I will probubly misspell them the points of energy also are in
>Gladsbury, England, The Royal Tetons, USA, the H. mountains in India, the
>Great Pyramid and a few others.  So what you mention is jest may be truer
>than you thought.
>John Winston.

The existence of 'energy' points is well documented.  Minor energy points
which, when connected, form a Ley Line are Taco Bell franchises.

****
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer
****
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!odin.unomaha.edu!jcitro3
From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 21:39:53 GMT
Lines: 15

John,

        I can neither confirm or deny the existence of MIB in foreign
        countries.  I just repeated what was aired on the weekly Fox
        Network show "Sightings".  Perhaps the validity of these reports
        should be taken with a grain of salt!  I did find it intresting
        that the supposed MIB looked the same no matter which country
        they were found in.  It seems there can be two possibilities if
        the cases of MIB are true: 1) A massive inter-government coverup, or
        2) The MIB themselves are other than human (Based on descriptions).
        This will probably be the subject of much controversy for some time.

                                        Joseph A. Citro III

        2)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7303 alt.conspiracy:16916
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: Re: Fuck the CIA
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Stollman
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 03:25:56 EDT
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (martin frederic melhus) writes:

> Gary -
>
>      Here's a little ditty I think you might need to remember:
>
>      A prozac a day keeps the voices away.
>
>      (I don't advocate prozac; it just fits the rhyme scheme.
>       So, scientologists, please keep your flames to yourselves.)
>
> --
>                           | You have all the time from when you remove the |
>      Martin F. Melhus     | card(s) from your hand until you put it (them) |
>  [e-mail] | on the pile to say "Last Card".  If you don't, |
>                           | take your two. - Hidden texts, Book of MauMau. |

*****
Really?  Maybe you should take one...You don't look too good...

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7304 alt.conspiracy:16917
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 03:29:38 EDT
Lines: 10

Just to let you all know, I didn't write those last few notes...Someone,
probably the sysop here was using my signon, and the others were fakes
also...It may not seem like much of a big deal, cause a lot of you think
I'm a loon, but it matters to me...

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7305 alt.conspiracy:16918
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 03:46:31 EDT
Lines: 23

Just a reminder of who is running this country...And why I believe the
Secret Service conspired in the murder of JFK...When I believed a
classmate of mine had threatened the life of the President back before
this shit ever hit the fan in 1981, before I ever knew or thought about
clones or anything similar, I contacted the Secret Service in
Jacksonville, Fl. and told them about it...The agent I spoke to didn't
really get what I was saying until I told him the guy said something about
a plot to kill the President...Then he perked right up and said, Well,
Gary, you just said the magic word!  He told me he would call me back the
next day in the morning to get the details...When the next day came and no
call had come in, I called the office back to find out what had
happened...A different guy answered the phone, and asked me my name...He
then told me the agent I had spoken to had gone on a vacation, and that I
should forget about it and relax...When I pressed the issue, he suggested
that I go check myself into a mental hospital, and told me that the agent
didn't work there anymore...I will upload soon the parts of my sotry
relevant to this from GEnie (story)...It gets a lot scarier than this!!!

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7306 sci.skeptic:27550
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 04:48:18 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 201

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Carl J Lydick) writes:

|In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes
:
|>DON'T ask me to send you these for they are large:
|>
|>    -rw-r-----  1 thad          5214 Jul  7 05:36 mars-faces-ftp.info
|
|If that one contains information on where one can ftp the images, could you
|send that?  It's not very big.
|[...]

Happy to oblige.  To facilitate matters, I've extracted the relevant info
from that file, included additional info from colleagues, and added some
miscellaneous tidbits.

Though the site from which I retrieved the copies I viewed doesn't permit
anonymous ftp, I found references to the following two sites which archive
the files:

    cs.ubc.ca    [128.189.97.5]        pub/local/images/mars/
    phoenix.oulu.fi    [130.231.240.17]    pub/ufo_and_space_pics/

I just a few moments ago connected to each site and verified their copies
are identical to the ones I have [verification by sum(1) and vitals(1)].

The pertinent directory listing for both sites is appended to this article.

Each *.label file contains Viking picture stats for the corresponding *.rect.Z
file (compressed using UNIX' compress(1), 16-bits) which is the image itself.
Note the 16-bits; this "might" cause problems for those with PCs or Macs.

Each Viking image is 1204x1055, one byte per pixel.  Using the PBMplus suite
(in the X11 contrib area at export.lcs.mit.edu), they can be converted to a
format of choice by (for example):

    zcat 35a72.rect.Z | rawtopgm 1204 1055 - > pgmfile

or viewed directly on a UNIX box by:

    zcat 35a72.rect.Z | rawtopgm 1204 1055 - | xloadimage stdin

The images ARE "noisy."  After possible cleanup, good enhancement is achieved
by running the images through a median filter followed by linear contrast
stretching.  On an SGI IRIS I converted one to GL format and used the imgtools
suite for some post-processing; on a Sun I used some of the ancillary tools in
the PBMplus suite.

On a Mac, I understand one can use ``NIH Image'' to read, process, and display
(but don't ask me how since my only Macs are those running A/UX).

On a PC, I understand the following procedures will work (but don't ask me
for help since I have NO PCs anywhere except for one PC-on-a-card in a 3B1
which is used solely to run Quicken in a DOS window):

    Convert using piclab (freeware). The latest version is piclb191.zip
    (or *.lzh).

    With piclab running:    RLOAD picturename 1204 1055 [MONO]
    Then command:        GRAY
    View it with:        SHOW
    For assistance:        HELP commandname
                LIST COMMANDS (or simply "l c")
    For an SVGA board try:    SET DISPLAY SVGA3
        or:        SET DISPLAY SVGA2
        or:        SET DISPLAY SVGA1
    List variables' values:    SET
    Convert to GIF:        GSAVE picname.gif

Note that there are some other Mars-related pix at the phoenix.oulu.fi site
in JPEG format; if you snarf those, you'll need to get the JPEG manipulation
software from ftp.uu.net in the graphics/jpeg area.  That software builds on
UNIX, Amiga, PC, and other platforms.  You'll end up using only the djpeg
("decompress JPEG") program to create a GIF or to create a PNM format file
for use with the PBMplus suite.  Those specific files are scanned from a
magazine, so their quality isn't the greatest and I won't comment about
their purported contents.

I understand 35A72 and 70A13 are also available at wsmr-simtel20.army.mil
[26.2.0.74] but haven't a clue where to find them there.

The person for whom I'm archiving this newsgroup while she's on vacation
has a more comprehensive list of NASA and other sites at which more pix
can be found; when she returns I'll ask her for the list and post it.

Some gorgeous photos of Neptune and its moons are available at the site
hanauma.stanford.edu [36.51.0.16] in their pub/astropix area.  I remember
snarfing those the day they arrived and printing them on an Xerox 4020 color
printer; visitors to my office still are astonished by their cold, eerie
beauty.  A listing of that directory hierarchy is also appended to this
article since I haven't seen those archived elsewhere.

Thad

P.S. Thanks for the launch and mission dates of the Mars Observer!  I just
perused the sci.astro area and noticed the picture resolution will be 1.5
meters/pixel!  Wow; 30 times magnification over the Viking series!  Operations
start November 1993 for a duration of 687 days (one Martian year), so I didn't
err when I stated we'll have better pictures in several years!  :-)

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]

---------- begin enclosures

cs.ubc.ca [128.189.97.5]; University of British Columbia (Vancouver?)

pub/local/images/mars:
total 995
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips     6663 Apr 26  1990 35.face.pgm.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips      533 Apr 26  1990 35a72.label
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips   509519 Apr 26  1990 35a72.rect.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips     6359 Apr 26  1990 70.face.pgm.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips      588 Apr 26  1990 70a13.label
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips   438164 Apr 26  1990 70a13.rect.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips     3791 Apr 26  1990 README
-rw-r--r--  1 phillips    23231 Apr 26  1990 marsface.arc

----------

phoenix.oulu.fi [130.231.240.17]; "someplace" in Finland

pub/ufo_and_space_pics:
total 3445
-rw-r--r--  1 12       6663 Mar 11 02:23 35.face.pgm.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 12        533 Mar 11 02:32 35a72.label
-rw-r--r--  1 12     509519 Mar 11 02:27 35a72.rect.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 12       6359 Mar 11 02:32 70.face.pgm.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 12        588 Mar 11 02:32 70a13.label
-rw-r--r--  1 12     438164 Mar 11 02:32 70a13.rect.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 0       93115 May  5 04:58 ALIEN_47.JPG
-rw-r--r--  1 369    116887 Apr 24 09:00 Lazar.zip
-rw-r--r--  1 12       2005 Mar 16 20:27 README.FACE
-rw-r--r--  1 12      29905 May 18 10:09 adamski.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12      17468 May 18 10:09 adamski2.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12     245730 May 18 10:09 adamski3.tif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    288141 Apr  3 03:41 alien.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369      4209 May 19 03:53 alien_47.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 12       8328 May 11 17:23 beamshps.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12      38931 May 11 17:28 brazil.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12       1646 May 11 20:51 cropcirc.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    139409 Apr  3 03:41 ed11.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369     28526 Apr  3 03:41 ed12.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369     60574 Apr  3 03:41 ed13.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    110263 Apr  3 03:41 ed13big.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    124246 Apr  3 03:41 ed14.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    102025 Apr  3 03:41 ed17.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    115526 Apr  3 03:41 ed19.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 369    129477 Apr  3 03:41 gbreez2.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12       9453 May 11 20:51 grey.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12      76404 May 11 17:25 grey.xbm
-rw-r--r--  1 12      40386 Apr 18 16:31 humanoid.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12      59734 Feb  9 22:45 marsface.jpg
-rw-r--r--  1 12      59859 Feb  9 22:39 marsinka.jpg
-rw-r--r--  1 12     160227 Feb 10 00:31 marspyra.jpg
-rw-r--r--  1 369      2253 Apr 24 08:58 phil_ufo.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 12      55722 May 11 17:30 pleiades.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12       9135 May 11 17:27 realufo.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12      76303 Mar 16 20:06 ufo.jpg
-rw-r--r--  1 12       8524 May 11 17:27 ufo1.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12        730 Mar 16 20:07 ufo_and_gbreeze_readme.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 369    148311 Apr  3 03:41 ufohouse.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12      12006 May 11 17:27 ufoocc.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 12       1384 Mar 16 20:26 viking_original_raw_marsface_data.txt

----------
hanauma.stanford.edu    [36.51.0.16]

ftp> pwd
257 "/pub/astropix" is current directory.

ftp> ls -lR
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
total 16
dr-xr-xr-x  2 root          512 Jul 27  1991 eclipse
dr-xr-xr-x  2 root          512 Sep 13  1990 neptune

eclipse:
total 2576
-r--r--r--  1 148        652009 Jul 27  1991 goes1.tif.Z
-r--r--r--  1 148        635941 Jul 27  1991 goes2.tif.Z
-r--r--r--  1 148        637061 Jul 27  1991 goes3.tif.Z
-r--r--r--  1 148        700549 Jul 27  1991 goes4.tif.Z

neptune:
total 1800
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root      1114331 Aug 26  1989 7best.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root         1210 Aug 26  1989 README
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root         2542 Aug 28  1989 README2
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root        60067 Aug 31  1989 bigtriton.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root        56420 Aug 31  1989 crater.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root        54952 Aug 31  1989 spots.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root        48446 Aug 26  1989 triton.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root       169178 Aug 31  1989 tritonwhole.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root       144731 Aug 31  1989 twocresc.Z
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root        26957 Aug 26  1989 whole.Z
226 Transfer complete.
929 bytes received in 0.32 seconds (2.86 Kbytes/sec)

---------- end enclosures
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gray Recipes
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 05:52:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <y7#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 43

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Michael Fader) writes:

|In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
|>[e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
|>>In article <y7#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) write
s:
|>>| [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
|>>|[...]
|>>| _To_Serve_Man_.  :-)
|>>Hah!
|>>That's the title and theme of one of Rod Serling's episodes for his classic
|>>show "The Twilight Zone."
|>It was originally a short story written by Damon Knight in the 50s.
|>[...]
|
|I may be mistaken, but isn't it from "The Outer Limits" ?

Hmmmm, I recall it was either a half-hour show or a segment of a one-hour
Twilight Zone.  Is there a TZ concordance along the lines of the one produced
for Star Trek?

Outer Limits started September 1963 and I believe each airing was one hour
and none were multi-story broadcasts.

|(Sort of like the credibility of this newsgroup. But it DOES save the cost
|of a subscription to the National Enquirer.)

How true; it's almost embarassing to admit participation in this group! :-)

Sheesh, what with all the incised genitals, Grey Road Kill recipes, hot tub
episodes, and misc. fantasies and incoherent babblings, I almost thought this
was alt.kook!  :-)

Perhaps a subdivision of this newsgroup would permit better focus of one's
interests, but I doubt the traffic or readership could justify or warrant such
a split [even knowing the alt.* hierarchy is an "anything goes" free-for-all].

ARE there other branches of "alt.alien.*" that aren't appearing at all sites?
Portal and Netcom seem not to have any, and neither do some other sites I've
recently checked.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7308 sci.space:32022 alt.paranormal:5426 sci.skeptic:27552
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Phobos-UFO-pic,what do You think about it ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 06:03:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:

|  I have just posted the Phobos2 Ufo-picture in JPEG format in
|  alt.binaries.pictures.misc
|
|  What do You all think about it ?

Utter waste of net bandwidth.

Well, you did ask!  :-)

I, too, thought the picture appears to be a ``Mr. Potato Head'' construction.

Sorry, I realize you meant well, but that picture contributed nothing to any
understanding of the purported subject.

I wonder if the original is available from any CIS (ex-USSR) agency in its
digital form?

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7309 talk.bizarre:66343
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 06:40:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 7

Dear Jason: In my humble opinion you have a furtile mind, what a person
need to use and understand ESP is an open mind. Your comments gave me a
chuckle. My Guru's name was Merele Fagot and he is now dead. The last
time I wrote Lobsand he was in Canada. He was existing in an
Englishman's body, overweight and very sickly. Everytime I write him
I ask him if the reports of his death are true and he assures me that
the reports are not true.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7310 talk.bizarre:66344
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 06:44:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]
 n.com>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

In my attempt to hassen Jason I didn't correct the mistake in my
last transmission.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!ee3401cb
From: [e-mail] (Student Class Account)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Jul 92 17:31:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.j2amy7b
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293) writes:
>To coincide with the MUFON Conference last weekend in Alberquerque
>Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner's new book "Crash at Corona" was
>released. This week Stan is doing a lecture tour around New Mexico.
>

I just heard Stanton Freidman speak at U.N.M. last night, and recently
finished reading his "Crash at Corona".  The BIG difference between
Freidman's and Randle's books are the claims by the fromer of a second
crash site 160 miles west involving a different saucer.  I seem to remember
Randle and Schmitt dismissed claims of another site due to lack of evidence.
The new book also has a chapter about MJ-12 with the documents themselves
in an Appendix.

After the conference I asked Freidman about Robert Lazar.  He said that
his claim that he (Lazar) worked at a secret govt. installation back-engineering
UFO's is total bunk.  No proof exists (that he could find anyway) of where
he claims he went to school or that he was even a Physicist as he claims.
He also found evidence that he was at one time owner of a couple of brothels
in Nevada, which would have made his getting a security clearance very difficult.

James

>At the MUFON Press Conference at Alberquerque there was a heated
>exchange of views between Kevin Randle, representing a local Roswell
>paper (also author with Don Schmitt of Crash at Roswell) and Stan.

Maybe this debate was over the second crash site or something?

James
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7312 talk.bizarre:66357
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 17:17:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Jason: In my humble opinion you have a furtile mind, what a person
>need to use and understand ESP is an open mind. Your comments gave me a
>chuckle. My Guru's name was Merele Fagot and he is now dead. The last
>time I wrote Lobsand he was in Canada. He was existing in an
>Englishman's body, overweight and very sickly. Everytime I write him
>I ask him if the reports of his death are true and he assures me that
>the reports are not true.

Suppose that one day he changes his tune, and replies that he has, in
fact, died. Would you believe him?

Perhaps the time had come for him to trade in that sickly, overweight
Englishman's body for a newer model?

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.conspiracy:16934 alt.conspiracy.jfk:2547 alt.alien.visitors:7313
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!concert!borg!monet!davidson
From: [e-mail] (Drew Davidson)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Newsweek's Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Jul 92 22:07:04 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 15

About a year ago or so, Newsweek (I'm pretty sure it was Newsweek --
either that or Time) magazine published a semi-serious chart of the
Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory.  Does anyone out there know the date of
that issue of Newsweek?  If so, please email me.

Also, if you know of any other charts of a Grand Unified Conspiracy
Theory, or any specific (non-unified) theories, please email me!

Thanks,
Drew
--
Drew Davidson        \\     HELP FULLY INFORM JURORS!  TELL YOUR FRIENDS:
[e-mail]   \\    As a juror, you have the right to vote NOT GUILTY
 ** LEGALIZE TRUTH **  \\   if you believe the law broken is unjust or wrongly
* FULLY INFORM JURORS * \\  applied, regardless of the facts of the case.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10805 alt.alien.visitors:7314 sci.skeptic:27565
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 00:31:42 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> Dear Brick: I am real and have been taught how to send and receive
|> telepathic messages.  Even my dog is telpathic. Open minded people
Yeah, can you read my mind right now?

Can your dog read my mind, too?

Send me a telepathic message.  Let's experiment.


|> can be shown how to be telepathic with just a little bit of instruction.
|> While I was a civilian electronics instructor at Treasure Island during
|> spare time I would show students how to send and receive messages and
|> they would locate one another while on the base when one would send the
|> message that they wanted to locate one another.  I do know people
|> inside of Mt. Shasta.  One is named Phylos and he inspired the writing
|> of a book called A Dweller of Two Planets by Oliver in the 1880 so that
|> makes him pretty old.  The book is a classic and can still be obtained
|> in the Calif. library system. John Winston.


Brick
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7315 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1949
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 00:34:51 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> ... re: ramjets ...
|> > acceleration of 1g requires a ship of 10^-8 (gm/cm^2)/(nucleon/cm^3) or less.
|> > So, a 100 ton ship in a medium of 10 reactive nucleons per cubic centimeters
|> > would need a "scoop" with an area of 100,000 square km!
|>
|> > Sam Silverstein
|> > UW-Madison Dept. of Physics
|>
|> ... but also bear in mind that as the ship approaches relativistic
|> speeds and length contraction starts to be appreciable, the apparent
|> density of particles in space will increase.  So a ramjet gets more
|> efficient, the faster it goes.
|>
|> Jason


Everyone forgets that: as the ship goes faster, the ship will also get heavier.
Thus requiring that much more energy.

Einstein theories.


Brick
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7316 sci.skeptic:27566
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 18:37:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 53

In article <[e-mail]> I wrote:

| [...]
| The person for whom I'm archiving this newsgroup while she's on vacation
| has a more comprehensive list of NASA and other sites at which more pix
| can be found; when she returns I'll ask her for the list and post it.
| [...]

As promised, here's the list.  NOTE the material at these sites is exceedingly
voluminous; I'd strongly suggest just getting the CD-ROMs instead of attempting
to transfer scores of gigabytes of pix and other material.

To access the online catalog of NASA material, CD-ROMS, et cetera:

    telnet nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
    login as "NODIS"
    no password

Anonymous ftp sites (five):

nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.10.4]

    This is a VAX/VMS box, so you must ftp-login as "anonymous".  To get
    a dir listing into a file on your system:

    ftp> dir [...] file_on_your_system

vab02.larc.nasa.gov

    lots of stuff, including Aliens of all colors, and UFO pix (though this
    seems to mirror a lot of what's at phoenix.oulu.fi and has some
    additional material).

ames.arc.nasa.gov

    online copies of what appears to be all NASA's CD-ROMs, and lots of
    GIFs, *.img and *.jpg from most (all?) space missions since Apollo.

iris1.ucis.dal.ca

    dunno; it appears to be down today (Saturday, 18-July-1992).

ummts.cc.umich.edu
      |
 {changed to}
      |
      V
archive.umich.edu

    apparently popular (and, hence, slow).  Is supposed to have many
    NASA and Voyager data files.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!hillman
From: [e-mail] (Dan Hillman)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on MIB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 02:56:22 GMT
Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>
>Black suits and black cars, thus, men-in-black(not to be confused
>with men-at-work).

Do the men in black argue over which one has to ride in the back? How about
which one has to pump the gas and wash the windshield?

>Watch it, such dis-information could land you in a black car.

As long as I get to ride shotgun that's okay with me.

--
| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   [e-mail]
|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7318 talk.bizarre:66408
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!hillman
From: [e-mail] (Dan Hillman)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 03:05:54 GMT
Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Jason: I may be a lot of things but joking, Honest Jason. I take it
>you do not understand the fine art of Sealing the Aura. It's a good
>to keep people from bugging you.
>John Winston.

"This aura sanitized for your protection." --Holiday Inn

--
| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   [e-mail]
|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!oyster.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur)
Subject: Abduction case
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: Abduction in New York
Sender: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 02:23:29 GMT
Lines: 38

I talked to a leading researcher two weeks ago, and he informed me about the
abduction case that happened in New York.  Someone posted that case earlier.

The incident was witnessed by all those people who were on the Brooklyn Bridge,
and by the people who were below (on the street ).

The VERY high ranking official was not disclosed to me.  I was told, however, that
the official's Secret Service agents witnessed these happenings.  It was these
agents that contacted Bud Hopkins.

The incident happened in 1989, and this official has not made up his mind yet
as to whether he will disclose what he witnessed.

My source personally knows just about every UFO researcher, and was one of the
key people in organizing the conference at MIT a month ago.

He an about 7 other researchers have been specifically doing MASSIVE research
on the Roswel crash.  They have uncovered many things that have never been
uncovered before.

One thing that I was told was that the parts of the alleged crashed ship was not
shipped by train to Wright Patterson, but rather flown there by the "Flying Wing".

They are keeping this a "black" investigation and not revealing details of what
they have uncovered, so as to not get flack/disinformation/interference from the
various govt agencies.

I have know this researcher for about 7 years and never knew that he was "in"
with all the huge names in UFO research.


I hope to be helping him on the research if he will allow me.  I will post any

tidbits, that I am allowed, here.



Brick
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 21:34:10 CST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 11

How about alt.alien.humor ?  Maybe it will clear up all the junk we get
on here.  :-)

  //                          Though we may be the last in the world
\X/ A proud Amiga User.       We feel like pioneers
  e  r  a  s  u  r  e         Telling hopes and fears
 - - |)epeche Mode - -        To one another.  - M.L. Gore

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan
From: [e-mail] (Titanium Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 21:41:12 CST
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 29

[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Amiga man or person:
> I think the show Sightings had a lot of truth in it.  The Men in Black
> seem to not be at home in their physical bodies
> in that they look and talf very unusual. Sometimes it is our government
> people who come around and do the questioning but they dress pretty
> normal.  They love to run you off the road nearly kill you and then
> tell you they'll do it again if you keep talking.  One of the researchers
> lost a leg that way about talking  about government cover ups. So far
> the same person using the same car has run him off the road.

A bunch of tough dudes, eh?  Has anybody ever tryed doing something to
them?  Like asking real complex questions?  I hear it really confuses
them (they are somewhat stupid).  If there's someone who thinks these MIB
are following them, why not do a few tricks on them?  Like popping the
tires on their car, or putting a bug on them somehow.  Maybe it's not
that easy?  :-)  I guess you don't think about those things when you get
an unexpected visit.


  //                          Though we may be the last in the world
\X/ A proud Amiga User.       We feel like pioneers
  e  r  a  s  u  r  e         Telling hopes and fears
 - - |)epeche Mode - -        To one another.  - M.L. Gore

;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!ParaNet.Information.Service
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 01:56:01 GMT
Organization: Paranet Information Service, Denver, CO [phone]
Lines: 273


 > Where could I find some written information on the so called MIB theory.
 > It
 > sounds interesting, but someone trying to explain something they read,
 > or heard
 > isn't always as reliable as the source, ie a book or something. Thanks
 > in
 > advance for your help.

Compliments of ParaNet.

*****************************************************************
                 I M P O R T A N T  N O T I C E
               concerning the following text file
*****************************************************************
ParaNet  makes  no  endorsement of this material  and  the  views
expressed herein are not necessarily the views of ParaNet.   This
information is provided as a public service only.

ParaNet Information Service
P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172

ParaNet(sm):  Freedom of Information for a better world!

(C) 1991 ParaNet(sm) Information Service.  All Rights Reserved.
****************************************************************
ParaNet File Number: 00171



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A REVIEW OF MIBS (Men In Black): A HISTORY


" A lot of people of heard of "something" about MIBS without really knowing any

of the details."

"MONSTERS: Giants and Little Men From Mars"
 DELL Publications (paperback) (C) 1975
 Written by: Daniel Cohen

The purpose of this file is to aquaint users with MIBs history, how they are
related to the coverup allegations, along with associated reference material
and names of files which contain more current thoughts on the subject. Sysops
are encouraged to add in the files contained on their systems at the bottom of
the file, and any other additional reference material which would be useful in
helping others in their personal research.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 10 "The Men in Black and Other Terrors"

When the Condon Committee was sampling public attitudes toward UFOs they gave
this statement to a cross section of the American Public: A government agency
maintains a Top Secret file of UFO reports that are deliberately withheld from
the public." THe respondents were supposed to answer TRUE or FALSE. A
substantial majority, sixty-one percent, thought that the statement was true
while only thirty-one percent said it was false. Among teenagers, the
credibility gap was even wider -- 73 percent believed the statement to be true.

General opinion studies conducted by the Condon Committee, and other surveys
about UFO's came up with the rather paradoxal fact that there were more people
who believed in a conspiracy of silence about UFOs than believed in UFOs in the

first place.

It has  often been said that we Americans today are a bit paranoid; that we
always tend to believe that something is out to get us, or something is being
kept from us. It certainly seems that we were a bit paranoid about UFOs.

Most people thought vaguely in terms of an Air Force conspiracy or a CIA
conspiracy or even of a world-wide scientific conspiracy. It was generally
acknowledged that the reason behind such a conspiracy was a desire on the part
of those in power to hide the "truth" fro the public because people would panic

if they knew that we really were being visit by superior creatures from another

world. COnspiracy theorists constantly harkened back to the old "War of the
WOrlds" broadcast, and the panic it started.

Such a belief, however, is rather too simple for the true connoisseur of
conspiracies. He has long ago rejected the simple, straightforward Air Force -
CIA - science establishment - cover-up as too obvious, and really rather
ridiculous. The conspiracy connoisseur pointed out quite correctlyl that no
government or group, no matter how powerful, could possibly supress so much
sensational information for so long -- no earthly group that is.

If the extraterrestrials WANTED to make themselves known then they would land
in a central place, and all the feeble earthly cover-up would simply be blown
away. It is out of this sort of background that the legend of the Men in Black
arose. It concerns strange little men in dark suits who drive around in big
shiny cars and harass people who claimed to have seen a UFO.

The origin of the Men in Black legend can be pin-pointed fairly exactly. Back
in 1953 a man by the name of Albert K. Bender was runnong an organization
called the International Flying Suacer Bureau (IFSB) and editing a little
publication called "Space Review" that was dedicated to news of flying saucers.

The IFSB had a small membership despite its rather grandoise title, and "Space
Review" reached at best, no more than a few hundred readers. But they were all
deeply devoted to the idea that flying saucers were craft from outer soace. In
common with other ture believers, these saucer buffs were convinced that they
were in possession of a great truth, while most of the rest of the world
remained in darkness and ignorance. They felt very important , and thus it was
with a sense of surprise, even shock, that they opened up the October 1953
issue of "Space Review" and found two unexpected announcments:

   "LATE BULLETIN. A source which the IFSB considers very reliable has informed

us that the investigation of the flying soucer mystery and the solution is
approaching its final stages."

   "This same source to whom we had referred data, which had come into our
possession, suggested that it was not the proper method and time to publish the

data in 'Space Review'."

   The second and more shocking item read:

   "STATEMENT OF IMPORTANCE: THe mystery of the flying saucers is no longer a
mystery. The source is already known, but any information about this is being
withheld by order from a higher source. We would like to print the full story
in "Space REview", but because of the nature of the information we are very
sorry that we have been advised in the negative."

   The statement ended with the ominous sentence, "We advice those engaged in
saucer work to please be very cautious." Bender then suspended the publication
of "Space Review", and siddolved the IFSB.

The tone of the announcemnets would have been familiar to anyone who had much
experience with occult organizations. Occultists often claim they are in the
possession of some great secret which, for equally secret reasons, they cannot
reveal. Even the appeal, "please be very cautious" was not unique. It made
those engaged in "saucer work" feel more important . After all, who is going to

bother to persecute you if you are just wasting your time?

SHortly after Bender closed down his magazine and organization he gave an
interview to a local paper which he asserted the he had been visited by "three
men wearing dark suits" who had order him "emphatically" to stop publishing
material about flying saucers. Bender said that he had been "scared to death"
and that he "acutally couldn't eat for a couple of days." Some of Bender's
former associates tried to press for a more satisfactory explanation, but to
all questions he replied either cryptically or not at all.

This state of affairs created soncsiderable confusions amoung the flying saucer

buffs. What were they to think about sucah a strange story> Some were openly
skeptical of Bender's tale. They said that his publication and organization
were losing money and the tale of the three visitors who "ordered" him to stop
publishing was just a face-saving gesture. Yet, as the years went by the "three

Men in Black" began to sound more rspectable and they took on a life of their
own. Some' were Bender's friends first thought that the Men in Black were from
Air Force or the CIA, and indeed Bender's original statments do seem to sound
like government agents. But after a while the Men in Black begun to assume a
more extraterrestrial, even supernatural air.

Finally in 1963, a full decade after he first told of his mysterious visitors,
Alber Bender elaborated further in a book called "Flying Sauvers adn the Three
Men in Black." It was a strange, confused and virutally unreadable book that
revealed very little in the way of hard facts, but did significantly enhance
the reutation of the Men in Black as extraterrestrials. The book also
introduced into the lore "three beautful women, dressed in tight white
unigorms." Like thei r mail couterparts in black, the women in white had
"glowing eys."

But even before the publication of Bender's book in 1963, the Men in Black (or
MIBSs as they are know to insiders) had already been reported to be vising
others besides Albert Bender. By now they have been reported so often that they

have become an established part of the UFO history. The Men in Black, naturally

enough, wear black suits. They also usually wear sunglasses, presumably to
disguise their "glowing eyes". Most of them are reported to be short and
delicately built with olive complexions and dark, straight hair. They are often

described as "Gypsies" or "Orientals". Most MIBS are reported to travel in
groups of three and usually ride around in shiny new black cars -- often
Cadillacs. These cars are even supposed to "smell new." SOmetimes the MIBs pose

as investigators from the CIA or some other government agancy. They may flash
official-looking credentials, but these can never be checked out. Occassionally

the MIBs display badges with strange emblems on them, or have unrecognizable
symbols painted on their cars. The purpose of the visits seems to be to get
people who have seen UFOs to stop talking about them, or somehow to confuse and

frighten the witnesses.

People who worry about MIBs tend to lump all sorts of mysterious visitors into
the category, even if they don't wear black, have glowing eyes or show any of
the familiar MIB characteristics. The primary qualification for the Men in
Black is that they be of unknown origin, and that they appear to act oddly and
vaguely menancing.

Some of those who write about UFO's and other strange pehomena rather casually
mention "countless" cases where people have been visited by Men in Black. In
reality these "countless" cases are difficult to pin down. In fact, there
really seems to be a rather small number of MIB cases where there are any
details available at all.

The impression given by the writers is that the publicized cases represent only

"the tip of the iceberg." Beyond these, say the writers, are many "more
sensational" cases, the details of which cannot be revealed for a variety of
reasons. In any event solid evidence for a vast number of MIB cases is lacking.

But we are, after all, dealing with beliefs as much as with reality, and
impression is an important one.

Often the MIB cases that we know of are not quite as sensational as Albert
Bender's three visitors, but they are unsettling nevetheless. Take the case of
California highway inspector Rex Heflin. On August 3, 1965, Heflin claimed to
have taken a series of Polaroid photos of a UFO from his car while parked near
the Santa Ana Freeway. The pictures were quite clear and they showd an object
shaped rather like a straw hat apparenlty floating above the ground. These
pictures got a great deal of publicity, and are still among the most requently
repreinted UFO photos. Heflin's story was investigated by the Air Force shortly

after it bacome known. It was also looke into by investigators fot the Condon
Committee durring their inquiry. (The committee investigator produced a pretty
fair imitation of the photos by suspending the lens cap of his camera in front
of his car with a thread and photograph it through the car window). In
addition, a host of unofficial UFO groups tackled the case in their own way.

There was considerable suspicion on the part of official investigators that the

photos had been faked, but this was difficult to prove or disprove without the
original prints. Being Poaroid photos there were no negative.

Heflin said that he had turned over three of the four originals to a man (or
two men, the stories differ) who calimed that he represented the North American

Air Defense Command (NORAD). NORAD denied that they had ever sent out an
investigator or indeed that they had the slightest interst in the photos. The
mysterious person who is alleged to have taken the phots has never been
identified.

On October 11, 1967, over two years after Heflin's original sighting, but while

the Condon investigation was going on, Heflin reported another encounter with
mysterious visitors. A man who said that he was Captain C. H. Edmonds of the
Space Systems Division, Systems Command, a unit of the Air Force that had been
involved in the first investigation of his UFO photos, came to his home. During

the interview the man who called himself Captain Edmonds asked Heflin if he
wanted his original photos back. When Heflin said no, the man was "visibly
relieved." Inexplicably, the man then began discussin the Bermuda Triangle.
This is an area near the island of Bermuda where a number of mysterious
disappearances of airplanes and shops have been reported. These disappearances
have been linked by some to UFOs, though the connection does not seem very
convincing.

While this strange interview was going on Heflin said that he saw a car parked
in the street. It had some sort of lettering on the front door but he could not

make it out. To quote the Condon Report description of the indicent, "In the
back seat could be seen a figure and a violet (not blue) glow, which the
witness attributed to instrument dials. He believed he was being photographed
or recorded. In the meantime his FM multiplex radio was playing in the living
room and during the questioning it made several loud audible pops." All
attempts by the Air Foece, various civilian researchers and the Condon
Committee itself to find "Captain C. H. Edmonds" failed. As far as can be
determined, no such person has ever existed.

A much more bizarre story was supposedly told by an unnamed family who had
sighted a UFO. Sometime after the sighting they said tha--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Witnessed Abduction - Linda
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 05:05:04 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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 > >Dan described
 > >himself and Richard as "undercover policemen" who would not publicly
 > >come forward for fear of damaging their careers.
 >
 > So it's been confirmed by witnesses who can't be checked up on. That's
 > handy.

Unfortunately, this is the same old story.  Nothing new here.  And just think,
Budd told us that this would really rock the world!  Oh well...

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Squire)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 12:30:48 GMT
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[e-mail] (Joe Citro III) writes:

> John,
>
>         I can neither confirm or deny the existence of MIB in foreign
>         countries.  I just repeated what was aired on the weekly Fox
>         Network show "Sightings".  Perhaps the validity of these reports
>         should be taken with a grain of salt!  I did find it intresting
>         that the supposed MIB looked the same no matter which country
>         they were found in.  It seems there can be two possibilities if
>         the cases of MIB are true: 1) A massive inter-government coverup, or
>         2) The MIB themselves are other than human (Based on descriptions).
>         This will probably be the subject of much controversy for some time.
>
>                                         Joseph A. Citro III
>
          3)No MIB are just kids who take XTC, go to house/discos dress in
          black, wear sunglasses at night and think they're hot shit!

          Also, why is it that Belguim gets lots of saucers, while France
          and Holland get none.  Germany gets a few, and Switzerland also
          gets alot!  Guess they re-enter in the Atlantic and beat a path
          across Belguim and Germany to get to Switzerland.  Maybe there
          are MIB in that path, but I think they all come out of discos!

                                                Bill
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 06:21:11 PDT
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Dear Rosch: Thanks for your comment. I keep it in mind the next time
I need to locate a taco.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 06:33:33 PDT
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Dear Everybody: I just got a letter back from Robert Stanley about the
ruins of an ancient city in Southern Calif. I'll now put down part of it.
Dear John: Thank you for your interest in Mystic Mountains. I have
enclosed a brief introduction to my continued research, along with a
sampling of the magazine that I work for. The information in the interview
only hints at the extent of the tunnel systems in this area. I do not
take the public into these tunnels as they are too dangerous, and
besides there is plenty to see on the outside of the mountains. The tunnels
were discovered in 1930's by an engineer End Part 5.---John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line??
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Part 6. --by the name of Warren Shufelt while searching for oil and gold.
I take people on an all day expedition, usually on Sundays.  Weekday
tours can be scheduled in advance.  We leave from my house in Man-
hattan Beach about 9 AM. The hike is about 5 miles long but we
break it up into 3 or 4 rest periods. I have had people of all ages
come with me and they really love it. Thank you for posting the
information on the computer network. This is me JW speaking now. I
will now switch to the next Ley Line collection to put more information
about this city on the net.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 06:57:27 PDT
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Dear Everbody: This is part 7 of information about the ancient city.
The other parts of this information are in the Collection What the H.
are Ley Lines. This is information I just got from Robert Stanley a
person who takes people on tours of the ruins. Not much written history
has survived regarding the ancient cultures that existed here thousands
of years before us.  Most of it has been hidden or destroyed. Very
little local history was recorded by the first settlers from the
European cultures upon arriving here because it was not believed to
be truth, but mere myth. ---John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 14:26:16 GMT
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Dear Robert S. You may be right. What was it that Mark Twain once said
when he saw an article about him being dead in the paper?
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 14:21:47 GMT
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Dear Hillman: Make fun about Sealing the Aura but it's good
pyschic self defence.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 14:18:11 GMT
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Dear Jason: I beg your pardon. I said you had a furtile mind I meant
a fertile mind.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 14:36:48 GMT
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Dear Robert S.:
I noticed that you quoted from Emerson. In my opinion he was a very
great person and one of the people that I try to imulate.
John Winston. Sir Frances Bacon is another good one.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 14:52:16 GMT
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Dear Brick: It's just my opinion but you appear to be the type of
person who would like to call me out to try to prove to you that I
can  send a telepathic message to you but don't really believe that
I can do it. I probubly can't send you a message that you would receive.
I once had an experiment while I was calling into the Herb Jepko
telephone talk show out of Salt Lake City, USA.  They had a young lady
who was aware of the actions of a certain person who called the radio
program (with a radio handle of Dick Tracy). I attempted to make
contact with her at 1,400 miles away. It was a success. So Brick get
me someone who is open minded and probubly an known telepath and we'll
have your experiment.  John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Palladium games and Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 14:11:03 GMT
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Part 8. ---According to the local Chumash Indians creation legends,
modern man was created after the flood.  They say that there was
once a large beautiful, lush, and fertile coastal velley which they still
refer to as MU. It was located between what is now the Channel Islands
and the Southern California coast from east to west, and from Point
Conception to the clifts of Escondido from north to south. For an aerial
perspective of where the valley of Nu was located prior to it becoming
submerged under the Pacific Ocean, look at the cover of a triple A
road map of California. Follow the natural curve along the coastline
form north to south. End part 8 ---John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 15:03:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.62403
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Dear Bill: I can honestly say I've never met a MIB in a disco.
My teacher once told me not to pick on the MIB because it would be
like a small time sheriff taking on the mob.  He said my elder
brothers would take care of them.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 15:07:36 GMT
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Dear Titan: I often though that if a MIB came around it might to
invite my friend over who has two large pit bulls (dogs that is).
MIB against dogs.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 15:10:01 GMT
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Dear Joseph:  Well it seems like you have your thinking cap on anyway.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 10:07:57 PDT
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 10:12:49 PDT
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     Then Harv took over the conversation and these are his words; You
know John the other day my friend begged me to go over and see a psychic
lady that she had been going  to for a long time.   I didn't know much
what to say to the lady but just gave her my name and asked her what
she could tell me.  The lady then started telling me about my past,
my problems and then spoke to her lady friend  in the next room,
"Say, Hun come on in here I want you to meet a millionair.  He is not
a milluionair yet but he will be.  After this went on for a while the
psychic lady who we'll call Eve told me that I had just got a new
quardian angel.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 10:15:02 PDT
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TRANSFER
1>+899999:Subject: What Age Are We In?
    Some people think the Age of Aquarius is just something that some craz
    First of all lets define the word Newager.  The word refers to a perso
    I asked a friend of mine to write me out an explanation of how we can
    In the 1800's scientific people decided to make some sense out of all
    When you look up in the sky at one time each night you'll notice  that
    Now we have the sun coming up at a certain time on a certain day.  The
    Right now if you go outside at  about l0:00  P.M you'll see  the Big D
    If you had enough patience and lived long enough you'd notice that the
    So is this a new age? No, no, no.  It's just an age that we haven't se
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Ley Lines...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 10:32:37 PDT
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From: [e-mail]
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Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 10:39:53 PDT
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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1>+899999:Subject: What Age Are We In?
    Some people think the Age of Aquarius is just something that some craz
    First of all lets define the word Newager.  The word refers to a perso
    I asked a friend of mine to write me out an explanation of how we can
    In the 1800's scientific people decided to make some sense out of all
    When you look up in the sky at one time each night you'll notice  that
    Now we have the sun coming up at a certain time on a certain day.  The
    Right now if you go outside at  about l0:00  P.M you'll see  the Big D
    If you had enough patience and lived long enough you'd notice that the
    So is this a new age? No, no, no.  It's just an age that we haven't se
    Let me make an analogy. Let's suppose that everyone had only a memory
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Men in Black (MIB)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
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Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1992 19:19:36 GMT
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Bill,

        From what I understand UFO cases from Belgium are unique.  This is
        due to the recent government decision by that country to disclose all
        infromation on UFO's.  Thus, there may well be just as many UFO cases
        in neighboring countries, but they are unreported by witnesses and
        respective governments.  Also, Belgium's government has even set
        aside jets to search out UFO's that appear on radar.  This is a most
        exciting development, and hopefully other governments will follow
        in suit ;)

                                                Joseph A. Citro III

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From: [e-mail] (Tom Puncekar)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Men In Black..
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Jul 92 21:47:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Jul19.214714.16948
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I have a question...

A few years ago my uncle stated that he saw not one, but two, unidentified
flying objects, shaped somewhat like eggs, and having a feirce yellow glowing
color eminating from them. He dismissed it as a freak thing, an anomoly or
"joke", but just recently, after discussing them with a sightings group
he read about, he was visited by one man, dressed fully in black, having an
odd complection, some what olive in color. He had white hair, but was said to
be considerably young. His attire was black on black. Black suit, with a
black turtle neck sweater underneath. The man said only one thing, and that
was "Stay away from them." He's very troubled by this, and wonders what the
man could have meant. Maybe he was sent to him by accident, or maybe it was
a
<sorry about that...> maybe it was a joke..He really doesn't know..He visited
with the sightings group again, and told them of this man, they inturn told
him about MIBs..He was some what disoriented for a time. My question is,
do these men REALLY exist? And what or WHO are they? My uncle has no idea
how the man got to his house, because he lives far off in the forest. He had
NO car, and when he turned the corner, mu uncle reported his as "gone". I
myself have never seen a ufo, nor anything that would resemble it, and the
passengers they carry, and I have never seen a MIB, besides the occasional
"Headbanger" in his long hair and black attire...

Any help would be appreacted...
....Tom... [e-mail]
--
Try but you cannot deny the earth is alive
Our rivers, they are dying and smoke kills the sky
Modern man's cities are built on their lies
When cleansing flames burn, noone can hide....from the TRUTH.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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and Brick be sure to get someone that won't flake out if I appear to
them in the astral form. I usually do this in the form of astral
projection or spiritual travel and appear to them in the
spiritual form if they have ESP.  I also use some elementals to
help me wake them up if they happen to be asleep. Be sure and get
someone that  understands these things.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (The Independents - SUNY Buffalo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Men In Black (look better in the shade...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 00:06:00 GMT
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Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu


    If ANYONE comes to your door and demands that you stop
talking about ANY subject tell them to speak to your lawyer. Watch
what car they get into (if they do) and get the liscence number. If
they come back greet them at the door with a large dog or a large
shotgun. In the US the First Amendment specifically grants that
NO ONE can FORCE you to shutup.  The Second Amendment grants that
you can come to the door with your shotgun. If the MIB are aliens
they CERTAINLY do not want the publicity that they will get if
you call the police and your lawyer and complain of harassment. The
same goes for the government. DO NOT be intimidated by people coming
to your door wether they dress in post-socialist chic (black jacket
with black turtleneck) or in post-Reagan chic (jeans, checkered shirt
and cowboy hat).
    Basically I find the entire argument hard to believe. There
are so many conspiracy theories out there now that the public has
become immune. Stories that the CIA or NSA or Aliens have covered
up the Truth about UFO's or have a UFO under raps (unlikely) or
Secretly Killed Kenedy In A Massive Coverup Because Of A Secret
Government Behind The Government are so numerous that no one pays
attention anymore. Isn't that what the CIA or the Aliens would
want IF they are covering something up? Why make people suspicious
that Conspiracy X might be TRUE by poking around?
    So next time you see a MIB tell him that All Black as a
fashion statement went out with the Ancient Eighties. Then put
your Stun Gun in his groin and press the trigger....
                            ;)
                            Joe
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 16:13:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Everybody: Sorry about those last few posting.  Someone was
trying to post something for me but it didn't come our right. Please
be patient and I get it right later.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black..
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 16:23:51 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Dear Tom: I hope your not putting us on but your friend seemed to have
had a classic MIB experience.
John Winston.  Sometimes people just post things like this to show
how stupid people are in believing anything a person says. I'll give
you the benefit of the dought though.  It sort of like the 2 men in
the pub that would go out and make crop circles just to show the
serious investigators that they weren't so smart.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 16:54:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 17:07:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:15:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
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Dear Spacefans: I still trying.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10820 alt.alien.visitors:7353 sci.skeptic:27592
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:25:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 3

Dear Warren: I used the word P---------- because I couldn't remember
how to spell pleiadian.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10821 alt.alien.visitors:7354 sci.skeptic:27593
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!apple!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:35:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 4

Dear Everbody: I was just over at Don Showen's house a couple of
days ago and you people are really making him mad and he was trying
to be Mr. niceguy.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10822 alt.alien.visitors:7355 alt.paranormal:5433
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 20:39:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Schiffd: By George I think your getting the hang of it.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10823 alt.alien.visitors:7356 alt.paranormal:5434
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 20:43:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Everybody: S---- stands for Mr. Spock on Star Trek.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7357 talk.bizarre:66539
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!tulane!rouge!srl03.cacs.usl.edu!pgf
From: [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from a
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Anonymous NNTP Posting)
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 03:48:05 GMT
Lines: 31

[e-mail] writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
>> this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is
>> a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
>> in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his
>> books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
>> write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
>> body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
>> for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
>> pass on anyway.
>> John Winston.

>Dear John,
>    I am very interested in all you have to say.  I, too have had
>out of mind experiences, and I have met the Englishman you talk about.
>He is now disguised as an Albanian and living in Brixton, South London

>Jason

Perhaps you mean *out of _body_* experiences. Out of _mind_ experiences
are what you get from reading sci.space.

And what you need in order to vote Libertarian.

--
Phil Fraering [e-mail] where the x is a number from 1-5.
Phone: [phone]
"There are still 201969 unread articles in 1278 groups" - nn message
"57 channels and nothing on" - Bruce Springsteen
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10827 alt.alien.visitors:7358 sci.skeptic:27594
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!cunews!revcan!micor!uuisis!bbs
From: [e-mail] (System Administrator)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 00:16:04 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 21

[e-mail] writes:

> I attempted to make
> contact with her at 1,400 miles away. It was a success. So Brick get
> me someone who is open minded and probubly an known telepath and we'll
> have your experiment.  John Winston.


Ok - so you have convinced me that you *can* send telepathic messages.
That's an excellent start. Now, can you control the *content* of such
messages?

=Doug

----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!doug                Voice: 613-722-4724
DNS:  [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]
                      SKAN Communications Inc
      POST: P.0. Box 3041, Stn C., Ottawa, K1Y 4J3, CANADA
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abduction case
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:51:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 20


    [e-mail] writes:
    One thing that I was told was that the parts of the alleged
    crashed ship was not shipped by train to Wright Patterson, but
    rather flown there by the "Flying Wing".

.... I've heard this one before, but I'm not sure there was a flying
wing *flying* in July 1947.  The XB-35 (flying wing, with
pusher-props) was flying in June 1946, but sometime between then and
early 1948 the XB-35 became the YB-49, when the props were removed and
jets installed in their place.  I couldn't find a good reference; can
somebody else pin it down further?  (I'm not trying to cast aspersions
on the whole story; but the flying wing bit seems a bit much, since at
most there were at most 2 in the world, and both were under the
control of Northrop, not the military, in 1947.)

  I do know that the flying-wing-over-the-capitol picture is from
February 1949, though.

Charles
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (look better in the shade...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 20:59:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 10

Dear Joe: You put forth a good case but I wonder if it will hold
up with a MIB.  They have a good thing that they sometimes demonstrate
to people who talk too much about UFOs.  They will ask you to take
a penny out of your pocket and hold it in your hand, palm up so you
and they can see it at one time.  The MIB will consentrate on the
penny with his mind and it will start melting in your hand and burn
you. The MIB will then say, "I can do this same thing with your heart
if you don't shut up. You will know and he will know that he can
do it. The moral of this story is don't fool around with MIBs.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!cam!esk!rhoge1
From: rhoge1@esk (Robin J.N. Hoge)
Subject: Re: Men In Black (look better in the shade...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 05:15:22 GMT
Lines: 9

I say shoot the MIB first chance you get, before they get you.
....my opinion...


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  To be or not to be.  To fail or not to fail.    |
| She loves me -- She loves me not -- She loves me |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!ztsindi
From: [e-mail] (The Independents - SUNY Buffalo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (look better in the shade...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 07:08:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University at Buffalo
Lines: 33
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu


    Well I've heard of the hot penny trick but that would still
leave the mystery of what that charred lump of flesh is at my door
after they melt me down. If there coming to my door in the first place
that means I've been talking to SOMEONE. If that someone or someones
is suffeciently smart enough wouldn't they think, 'hey! Joe was
telling us about how he was abducted by a UFO and saw the engine room,
he made us this drawing and then went home. Now Joe's disapeered and
the police have found a charred chunk of carbon just inside the
doorway to his apartment...hmmmmm.' Now maybe the police wouldn't
believe that story but if enough of that happened around the
country (or world) the CIA, NSA, FBI, GRU, KGB, MI5, Interpol, etc..
would certainly start to take an interest, and THEN the MIBs have
defeated their purpose. Hush me up before I draw too much attention
to the phenomanon. Getting MI5, the NSA and the GRU involved would
be a big deal to our alien visitors as they then have to deal with
the opposition and resources of not just individuals but governments!
They could probably defeat the intelligence organizations but that
would amount to wholsale invasion. The whole purpose seems to be
to prevent this kind of thing. Of course they could try and run
me off the road (I have 5500 pounds of car so that might be
a diffecult proposition) or have some other 'accident' but then the
people I've been talking too may put two and two together again. They
might be scared into silence or they might be motivated to investigate
or even avenge me (no I can't see any of my friends screaming 'Avenge
Joe against these Aliens!!!!). It would seem that the BEST method of
insuring that no one believes that I have been inside a genuine alien
spacecraft is let me shoot off my mouth about it until people smile
politely and point a slowly revolving finger at there heads when I
come around. The whole MIB phenomanon seems to dumb for a real alien
race bent on secrecy to adopt. Wait a minute, who's blasting 'Back In
Black' by AC/DC in my driveway at this time of night, in a black
caddilac too! I think
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!tanus!c11420
From: [e-mail] (James Doohan)
Subject: UFOBASE - Who Can Verify This?
Organization: Pro-Net Australia
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 07:45:13 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Superuser)
Lines: 809

Hey, picked up this file from our local file service in Australia. It was on
the Pro-Net Australia board for this type of chat.

Can anyone in Northern California verify this?

Original file name k2RPT. Transmitted as K2RPT.TXT and K2RPT.ZIP.

THE K-2 REPORT: The Discovery of a Secret Alien Base In  Northern
California. Report Number 920627. May 27, 1992.

The "Phoenix Project Reports" Are Published By ADVENT  PUBLISHING
COMPANY P.O. Box 3748 Carson City, NV 89702

Entire Contents Copyright (c) 1992 by The Phoenix Project

Permission  to quote is granted provided the Phoenix  Project  is
acknowledged  as  the source and the Report Title  and  Date  are
included in any quotes.

Reproduction  of any Phoenix Project Report or Logo, in any  form
or by any means, is not permissible without written authorization
from the publisher

WHAT IS THE PHOENIX PROJECT?

 The   Phoenix   Project  is  a   private,   civilian,   research
organization   formed  in  1952  to  investigate  and   correlate
information  concerning  Unidentified Flying Objects  (UFOs)  and
Extra-Terrestrial (ET) activities. It has no affiliation with the
United  States Government or any of its agencies. Because of  the
nature of its work the Phoenix Project does not seek publicity.

 Staff  members are former military personnel who have  all  been
associated  with intelligence activities, and have  knowledge  of
covert government operations concerning UFO's. Their knowledge of
the  specialized  field of  "intelligence  correlation,"  provide
unique insights into various subject matter.

 From  time-to-time  and  in the  public  interest,  the  Phoenix
Project will publish research reports regarding certain subjects.
A   list  of  reports  is  available  from  our  publisher.   All
correspondence should be addressed to:

The  Phoenix Project C/O Advent Publishing Company P.O. Box  3748
Carson City, NV 89702

IMPORTANT NOTE

The  name  "Phoenix"  is used by many  different  publishers  and
organizations  as  a  part  of the name  used  in  their  various
publications.

To  avoid any false association with or confusion that  might  be
caused  by  a  similar name, all  publications  of  the  "Phoenix
Project"  bear the Project's Logo (a registered  trade-mark)  and
are  published  exclusively  by Advent  Publishing  Company.  The
"Phoenix  Project" is not affiliated with any other  publication,
publisher, organization or group.

In particular, there is no affiliation with a publisher known  as
America West, of Carson City, Nevada, any of its publications, or
the individuals known as George and Desiree Green, of  Tehachapi,
California.

INTRODUCTION TO THE K-2 REPORT

SPECIAL NOTE:

 June 27, 1992

 The  original  "K-2  Special Report," dated July  28,  1989  and
included  in  this document, was  classified  "confidential"  for
circulation within the Phoenix Project only. It was not  released
for public distribution. There are compelling reasons for  making
it public at this time, and to update this information. Note  the
following:

 1)  In  the  last decade, there has been  a  growing  number  of
reports  of  hostile activity by alien beings,  directed  against
humanity.

 2)  Various  Departments  and  Agencies  of  the  United  States
Government have increased their activity on two different levels.

 One:  They  have  stepped-up  the level  of  their  covert  dis-
information  campaign  --  a campaign  aimed  at  disrupting  the
civilian  UFO  movement.  This  is  evidenced  by  an  increasing
quantity    of   dis-information   supplied    to    individuals,
organizations  and the public. It is an onoing program to  create
wide-spread  confusion throughout the UFO movement,  to  splinter
organizations,  and to discredit any investigators who  get  near
the  truth.  Many researchers are  spinning-their-wheels  chasing
down, deliberately planted, false leads. The tactics employed are
aimed  at diverting attention away from critical areas where  the
truth would be revealed.

 Trained operatives have infiltrated the UFO movement, poising as
sincere and trusted investigators while others adopt the roles of
professional skeptics and debunkers. By covering and  controlling
both sides-of-theence, they insure that the truth remains hidden.

 Two: This duplicity extends to their relations with the  aliens.
On  one  hand  they  continue the charade  of  working  with  and
assisting the aliens -- to obtain the advanced alien  technology,
while  they  secretly develop operations and weapons  systems  to
counter the threat the aliens represent.

 The aliens have indulged in the same duplicity. Saying one thing
to   the  super-powers,  to  create  an  appetite  for   superior
technology,  while  carrying  out  their  own  covert  activities
against humanity. They have created wellidden bases of their own.
Bases that allow them to continue their covert operations without
government interference or scrutiny. Bases unknown to the various
world governments.

 It  would  be  untrue to say that the  U.S.  Government  doesn't
suspect  the existence of hidden alien bases. However,  to  date,
they have had shown little success in locating them.

 It  is  not the intention or purpose of the Phoenix  Project  to
judge   the  government's  actions  or  the  actions   of   those
responsible and involved in the UFO coverup activity. Our efforts
are  not part of a vindictive crusade against the government.  In
our  opinion,  the  public  has a right to  know  the  facts  and
information revealed by our investigations. If this proves to  be
an  embarrassment  to  those  responsible  for  concealing   such
information, they have only themselves to blame.

 Our  efforts  may  help  wiser  heads  in  the  government   and
elsewhere,  to realize that the aliens have hidden objectives  of
their own. Objectives they have not made known to the  government
and  humanity.  Wiser  heads may also  realize  that  Washington,
Langley  and Fort Meade do not have exclusive possession of  that
called  "intelligence"  or intelligence data. Perhaps  they  will
finally recognize that "others" are able to obtain, correlate and
evaluate  important information on their own. A  rational  person
might  realize  the  value and importance  of  cooperation  with,
rather  than  antagonism  against, others  who  possess  valuable
information.

 The  objective  of  the Phoenix Project in  making  this  report
public is to accomplish the following:

 1) To reveal to the U.S. Government, civilian UFO  investigators
and  the  public, the existence and location of  a  hidden  alien
base.  It will also become known that the aliens have  used,  and
are  continuing  to  use, without  their  knowledge  or  consent,
personnel of the U.S. Forest Service to help conceal the presence
of this base. Details concerning this are included in the updated
information supplement in the Exhibit Section of this report.

 2) Revealing the location of this base will render it useless to
the  aliens.  This  will severely impact  part  of  their  covert
activity against humanity.

 3) To reveal one aspect of the alien threat to the public.

HOW THE INVESTIGATION BEGAN AND THE ALIEN BASE WAS DISCOVERED

 The  Phoenix  Project investigation into this  matter  began  in
early  June  of  1989. Our Staff Member # 2,  then,  overheard  a
strange short-wave radio transmission that aroused his  interest.
Every  night,  for  two weeks, he  monitored  this  unique  radio
transmission.  Then, using radio direction-finding equipment,  he
was  able  to  locate the source of the  transmission.  By  using
triangulation  techniques he found the signal was coming from  an
area some forty miles northeast of his location.

 On  June 10, 1989, he recorded the strange  radio  transmission.
The  broadcast  signal lasted nearly an hour. The  recording  was
sent  to  the Project's Headquarters for  further  analysis.  Our
analysis  of the recording caused the Project to launch  a  major
investigation  into  this matter. As a side  project,  our  Staff
decided  to  "test"  the current  degree  of  government  secrecy
regarding UFO research. We created a test.

THE TEST

 Our  staff  contacted Dr. Peter Sturrock  at  Stanford  Research
Institute  in Palo Alto, California. Dr. Sturrock enjoys a  quiet
reputation of being a "concerned" and reliable UFO Researcher. We
requested  that  he conduct a further study and analysis  of  the
recording. Dr. Sturrock was very interested and cooperative -- at
first.  However,  very quickly, his attitude  changed.  Within  a
week, and acting very reserved and guarded, he phoned us  stating
he couldn't have anything further to do with this matter and that
Stanford  Research  could not analyze the recording.  No  further
explanation  was offered. He suggested we take the  recording  to
Dr. James Harder at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View,
California. We thanked Dr. Sturrock for his initial interest  and
expressed  our  regrets that he was unable to pursue  the  matter
further.  In the next day's mail, we received the  recording  and
our analysis notes from Dr. Sturrock.

 A  courier  delivered  the recording to NASA's  Dr.  Harder,  in
person, the following day. A week later we called to ask how  the
analysis  was progressing. Dr. Harder was not available  when  we
phoned,  but his secretary could not recall having  received  any
recording  from us. Therefore, there was nothing to  analyze  and
they  were  unable  to  assist  us  further.  The  tone  of   the
conversation was abrupt and had the ring of an obvious dismissal.

 Fortunately,  the  "lost"  recording  was a  copy  and  not  the
original.  It  was becoming very obvious that  Dr.  Sturrock  and
Stanford  Research, and that Dr. Harder and NASA, were not  going
to  reveal what their analysis of the recording revealed.  Again,
the  official  research community had failed our "test."  It  was
time to move on.

 Meanwhile,  the  Project's  Staff  decided  to  investigate  the
location   thought  to  be  the  source  of  the  strange   radio
transmission.

 On  June  15,  1989,  a  Phoenix  Project  Survey  Team  made  a
preliminary  investigation to locate the site and origin  of  the
mysterious  radio  transmission.  The  site  was  located  and  a
preliminary investigation was completed.

 A  second  site  survey  and  more  detailed  investigation  was
conducted  on  June 28, 1989. The results of this  second  survey
prompted   the  need  for  an  in-depth  scientific  survey   and
investigation of the site.

 On July 19, 1989, the third survey was launched. A well-equipped
science  and  investigative team arrived at the K-2  Site  for  a
three-day effort. For security reasons, at the time, the  Phoenix
Project  assigned  the code name "K-2" to the site area  and  the
investigative  effort. The results of all three site surveys  and
the  results  of the investigation, were compiled  the  following
week.   The  following  report  reveals  the  details   of   that
investigation.

Date of original report: July 28, 1989

 Revised for updated information: June 22, 1992

K-2 -- A SPECIAL REPORT

A SUMMARY OF FINDINGS

GENERAL DESCRIPTION

 K-2 is the Phoenix Project code name for a specific geographical
site   in  Northern  California.  It  has  been  determined,   by
investigation,  that  this site is the location of  a  previously
unknown  and undiscovered extra-terrestrial (alien)  installation
and base of operations.

 To  date,  the  U.S. Government  and  its  various  intelligence
agencies  has  given  no indication that they are  aware  of  the
existence  of  the  K-2 Alien Base or its location.  It  is  also
unknown  to  the general public and to leading  UFO  researchers.
This report is the first time its existence has been revealed.

 Alien spacecraft seen arriving and departing from this base, and
the  small, grey, alien creatures seen at this location, lead  to
the  inescapable conclusion that this base was built by,  and  is
operated  by, an alien race from the star system  Zeta  Reticuli.
This race, known in covert government and select public  circles,
and to UFO researchers, has been named the Greys.

CONCEALMENT FEATURES

 The site of this secret alien base is within the Plumas National
Forest. The base is well-concealed and hidden underground, inside
a  "land-mark" mountain -ilot Peak, in northern California.  This
site  is  located  in Plumas County, on  a  remote  and  isolated
stretch of county road between the towns of La Porte and  Quincy.
See Exhibit 1.

 The  site  is isolated and cut-off from general  access,  except
from the air or the use of snowmobiles, or ski's, 6 months of the
year  because  of heavy snow conditions. A well  constructed  and
permanent  "fire"  lookout tower on top of Pilot Peak  (K-2)  was
suddenly abandoned several years ago. Discussions with local U.S.
Forest Rangers, indicate there are no intentions of ever  manning
or  re-activating  the fire lookout station.  Budgetary  problems
were  not a factor. The explanation given, was that  the  lookout
was  obsolete.  Fire  spotting,  these  days,  according  to  the
rangers, is better accomplished by patrolling aircraft.

 This explanation, (in 1989) seems suspect and insubstantial,  at
best.  Evidence to support these claims are provided by the  fact
that   other  fire  lookout  stations,  in  nearby   areas,   are
operational  and manned throughout the peak summer  fire  season.
Why is the K-2 fire lookout an exception?

 An  outstanding "air approach corridor," provides  incoming  and
outgoing alien spacecraft with exceptional concealment. The  "air
corridor"  leading to and from this hidden base is, somehow,  not
covered  by  either  military or civilian radar  or  air  traffic
control.  This has been verified by examination  of  aeronautical
charts  of  the area. Terrain features, also,  provide  excellent
concealment from visual observation. See Exhibit 2.

TERRAIN FEATURES OF THE SITE:

 The main area of the Alien base is a "U" shaped bowl cradled  at
the northern end and at the foot of Pilot Peak and its associated
mountain  ridges. The site is protected on three sides by 400  to
600  foot mountain ridges. Two, level terrain, landing zones  200
to 300 feet in diameter are present. Well concealed and  expertly
camouflaged entrances to the Alien base are located near each  of
the landing zones. See Exhibit 3.

 High  mountains and deep valleys, leading to and from  the  open
mouth  of  the "U" shaped site, provides a 20 mile  approach  and
departure corridor that is secure from ground-based radar,  civil
or  military.  The deep valley and canyons  also  prevent  visual
observation  of  low-flying spacecraft. Visual  observation  from
high-flying  military or civilian jet traffic is not  likely,  as
the site is not on or near an established air traffic route.  See
Exhibit 17.

LANDING SITE EVIDENCE

 There  are  some physical indications present  at  both  landing
sites,  Landing Zone 1 and 2 (indentations in the  ground,  large
circular  areas of flattened native grass, and small  amounts  of
residual radio-active radiation). Most striking, however, is  the
fact  that  there  is  an unusual absence  of  animal  or  rodent
presence.  There are no animals; animal tracks, rodents,  snakes,
ground  squirrels or chipmunks present in or around  the  landing
sites.  However, these creatures are present everywhere  else  in
the  area.  Birds, also present elsewhere, seem to  avoid  flying
over  or  through the landing areas.  Insect  life,  particularly
flying  insects -- deer flies, common flies and  mosquitoes,  are
present  everywhere. Other researchers have established the  fact
that  the lack of animal or rodent presence in UFO landing  areas
is significant.

AREA NEAR CONCEALED BASE

 To  the casual observer visiting the K-2 site, everything  would
appear quite normal. The area seems peaceful and serene. However,
in  the  general  area  of  the  concealed  Alien  base,  to   an
experienced observer, it suggests and entirely different picture.
The  area is too tranquil and perfect, both in appearance and  in
the  general atmosphere of the place. The term "picture  perfect"
is  appropriate.  This  setting  is  completely  unrealistic  and
paradoxical when compared with other areas a mere half-mile away.

SURVEY PARTY OBSERVATIONS

 On  three  occasions  (in 1989)  trained  investigators  of  the
Phoenix Project have visited and investigated the K-2 site.  They
have   all  experienced  and  observed  unusual   phenomena   and
conditions in the area.

 1)  An uncanny stillness (the absence of normal  sounds)  during
the day. This was even more evident during the hours of darkness.
No  animal sounds. No owls hooting. No birds chirping.  No  cries
from coyotes. The absence of these normal sounds in the area  was
unsettling.  This phenomenon has been observed on every visit  to
this site.

 2) All the investigators experienced independent and  unprompted
feelings   of  being  observed  by  unseen  watchers.  This   was
particularly evident on the first visit to the site. Each  member
of  the survey party, independently, and with no solicitation  or
prompting from each other, reported, afterwards, strong  feelings
of being watched and frequently they turned around to look behind
them.  However, no unseen watchers were discovered. This  left  a
strong impression on the survey party.

 3) On the first survey there were observations of unusual  cloud
behavior. Clouds that formed out of nowhere. Clouds that appeared
and disappeared with sudden quickness. Thick, angry looking, grey
clouds  that billowed up in ominous manner, with a "boiling"  and
rolling  end-over-end motion, that quickly enveloped  the  entire
site  area. Survey party members wondered if the atmosphere  was,
somehow,  being controlled. All of this activity was confined  to
the  K-2 site area. A half-mile away, in any direction,  the  sky
was clear.

 4)  Observations  on the first and second visits  to  the  site,
revealed that an earthen dike (erected to maintain a 6 foot water
level  in a large pond near the concealed secret base)  had  very
recently,  been  deliberately  breached over a  ten  foot  width,
dropping  the pond's water level to a 6 inch depth. Shovel  marks
were  evident  in the breach area. The lack of  erosion,  on  the
sides of the breached area, indicated its recent nature.

 However,  on  the  third visit this  breach  had  been  expertly
repaired.  There were heavy equipment tracks (a  bulldozer's)  in
and  around the dike. Earth, dug from a nearby hill, was used  to
repair  the  dike. Forest Rangers, who patrol  the  area  several
times  each  day, when questioned about this, were at a  loss  to
explain  the  repairs.  No one using  heavy  equipment  had  been
observed  in the area. According to the Rangers, the pond is  not
used  for any known purpose -- yet it's there.  Someone  recently
breached it to lower the water level. Then, someone, unknown  and
unobserved, repaired it. See Exhibit 15.

 Why  the pond with no known purpose or function? Why breach  it?
Why  repair  it?  Why wasn't the use of heavy  equipment  or  the
repairs,  noticed by the patrolling Rangers? It should be  stated
that  the Rangers are very observant and notice everything  going
on  in  their area, as our questions revealed. Why is  K-2,  this
Alien base, seemingly, exempt?

 5) The county road between the towns of La Porte and Quincy is a
rough, poorly maintained, dirt road for some 30 miles. Rough dirt
roads  are  prevalent  throughout  the  area  for  miles  in  all
directions. There are no towns, settlements, fishing areas,  camp
grounds,  or anything else of significance, anywhere in the  area
near Pilot Peak (K-2). This site is out in the middle of nowhere.
Yet  --  the  county  road for 2-1/2 miles  either  side  of  the
entrance  to the K-2 site, is a modern, well  maintained,  black-
topped,  2 lane highway. Before and after this 5 mile stretch  of
modern  road, it is again a dirt road. Why? No one questioned  by
our  investigators had any explanation. And, more  curiously,  no
one seemed the least bit curious about it. Why? Refer to Exhibits
1 and 3.

 6) There is a rough, hard-packed, dirt road leading to K-2  from
the  town  of  La Porte. It is a narrow 2 lane road.  It  is  not
frequently  traveled.  On  the  third  visit  to  the  K-2  site,
extraordinary logging activity, by "two" major logging companies,
were  evident.  Only the trees within 20 feet on either  side  of
this  dirt  road  are  being cut and  hauled  to  sawmills.  When
questioned,  the  loggers  were  uncommunicative  regarding  this
activity.  However,  there is every reason to believe,  from  the
nature  of this activity, that this road is going to  be  widened
and improved. Possibly, even black-topped.

 One must remember that this road is an obscure county road  that
is infrequently used. It provides a secondary connection  between
the  two towns of La Porte and Quincy, some thirty  miles  apart.
Why the activity to widen and improve it? Why improve a road that
is hardly used by the general public?

 It must be remembered that all these secondary county roads  are
totally  impassible, because of heavy snow, for 6 months  of  the
year. No efforts are made during the winter to keep them open and
clear.  In fact, just outside of La Porte there is a heavy  metal
gate  that  is used to block the road during the  winter  months.
Why, then, all this activity? What purpose is being served?

METHODS USED TO DETERMINE THE PRESENCE, LOCATION AND SIZE OF  THE
ALIEN BASE

 Since the only way to conceal a large installation is to bury it
underground,  or  in the depths of an ocean, out of  sight,  only
certain types of sophisticated scientific instruments can  reveal
the underground presence of such an installation. Foremost  among
these  instruments,  is that known as a  portable  "total  field"
magnetometer.  This  instrument is widely  used  by  professional
geologists  to  detect  the  presence  of  valuable   underground
minerals,   oil,  and  water  deposits.  It  is  also   used   by
sophisticated  archaeologists  to detect the remains  of  ancient
buried   cities,  caverns  and  other  valuable  sites  of   past
civilizations.

 A  magnetometer is a precision instrument that  measures  minute
changes  or  deviations in the Earth's magnetic  field  within  a
given  area.  All  geological  features:  mountains,  lava  beds,
rivers, streams and lakes, plains, meadows and plateaus, and even
grains of sand, eventually, over thousands of years, align  their
molecular magnetic structure with the prevailing direction of the
Earth's magnetic field. Earthquakes, volcanoes and geological up-
thrusts,  and their resultant forces, in creating all  geological
formations, cause deviations in an area's basic magnetic pattern.
Underground  geological features such as: upthrust  dikes,  sheer
planes,  faults, mineral deposits, caverns, caves, tombs,  rivers
and lakes, etc., and other anomalies, leave their  characteristic
and recognizable magnetic signatures.

 In  a  like manner, any underground  excavations,  tunneling  or
shafts, create a deviation from the normal patterns prevalent  in
a given area. Such underground construction activity disturbs the
local  magnetic field in the area. This disturbance is caused  by
the material excavated or otherwise moved. The magnetometer  can,
by noting the strength of such deviations and disturbances,  then
determine  the  location, shape, size and depth  of  such  buried
features and anomalies.

 Sophisticated computer programs can then analyze the information
reported by this instrument and create statistical data,  charts,
plots and maps, which portray the underground features of an area
in  amazing detail. The magnetometer, in a sense, is  similar  to
having a form of powerful x-ray vision that is capable of looking
deep within the earth.

 For three days starting on July 19, 1989, a portable total-field
magnetometer was used by the Phoenix Project's scientific  survey
team to conduct a magnetic mapping of highly suspect areas of the
K-2 site.

 The  presence of our survey teams aroused intense  curiosity  on
the part of the U.S. Forest Service and their Rangers. The  first
day,  several  different Rangers questioned  us  intensely.  They
asked us who we were, what we were doing, how long we would be in
the  area,  where we came from, etc. We  had  prepared  plausible
answers  to  such questions in advance of being  questioned.  Our
answers  seemed to satisfy their initial curiosity. However,  the
second  and  third day of our presence on the site,  brought  the
Rangers  out  in  force.  Hardly an  hour  would  pass  before  a
different  Ranger or pair of Rangers would appear and  start  the
questions  all  over again. They seemed determined  to  find  out
exactly  who we were, why we were there, what we were doing,  and
why we were doing it, etc. Some of the Rangers stayed a while and
became interested in the scientific equipment and its  operation.
To  satisfy  them, we let them assist us in taking  some  of  the
magnetometer  readings. But, continuously, they tried to pump  us
for  additional  information.  Each time we gave  them  the  same
answers and eventually they would leave. The on-going visits  and
questions eventually became a game that was amusing. However,  we
couldn't help but wonder what was driving their curiosity and why
they continued the constant barrage of questions. See Exhibit 21.

 This  magnetic survey revealed the presence of a large  metallic
or metal constructed chamber of enormous size, thought to be  the
main alien installation or base, and other metal-lined  chambers.
In  addition,  various metalined tunnels and fused  natural  rock
passages   and   tunnels,  connecting  various   areas   of   the
installation, and providing means to enter and exit the base were
detected.

 Subsequent  computer analysis, of the data obtained,  created  a
highly-detailed magnetic contour map of part of this installation
(the  bulk  of  the  main installation lies  under  an  area  not
surveyed  on this occasion, but "linking" evidence indicates  its
direction and location) along with various tunnels, passages  and
entrances.  Exhibits  4,  5,  6, 7, 8, 9,  and  10  include  this
scientific information.

CONCLUSION (July 1989)

 It  is  the  opinion of the members  of  the  Phoenix  Project's
investigators  and  scientific  survey  teams,  based  on   their
personal  on-site  observations and in-depth study of  the  Pilot
Peak  (K-2)  site,  the  facts  revealed,  interviews  with  USFS
Rangers,  and  scientific analysis, that a  hidden,  underground,
major operational base of alien beings has been discovered.  This
investigation  and  survey were conducted by  highly-trained  and
credible  individuals  who  uncovered  --  incredible  facts.   A
complete  magnetic  survey of adjacent areas,  several  acres  in
extent, would reveal the true dimensions of this installation and
additional  valuable details, and is to be recommended.  However,
the  financial  cost of such an extensive survey  is  beyond  the
resources available to this group of investigators.

INFORMATION UPDATE

Date:  August 16, 1989 From: Staff # 1 Subject: Activity  Reports
concerning K-2

Comment from Staff # 1: Date: August 10, 1989, Time: 2215 PDT.

 At  2215  PDT, I received a phone call from Staff #  2  who  was
stationed forty miles southwest of K-2. In an excited manner,  he
described sighting a large glowing object that had, only  minutes
before, passed very near his observation point. He supplied a few
details. Knowing, from experience that the Phoenix Project phones
are being monitored by various government intelligence  agencies,
I  cut the conversation short and requested that  he  investigate
the  K-2  Site the next day and send me the complete  details  by
courier.  I received the following information from Staff # 2  on
August 14, 1989.

* * *

Report # 1: By Staff # 2: Date: August 10, 1989, Time: 2212  PDT.
Location: Approximately 40 miles southwest of K-2.

 A brightly glowing object was observed from my location. It  was
approximately 30-40 feet in diameter, moving slowly from south to
north at 500 feet above the tree-tops.

 When  first sighted, the object was approaching from  the  South
and slowing down. When opposite my observation point, it  stopped
in  mid-air  and hovered. The object was glowing  with  a  bright
white  light, as it approached. When it stopped and hovered,  the
color changed to a bright blue light.

 It  remained  stopped  for approximately  15  seconds,  then  it
changed back to a bright white color, as it started moving slowly
(10-15 mph) toward the North in the direction of K-2.

 Observations:  The object lit up the area, quite well,  when  it
was  glowing with the white light. No sound was produced  by  the
object.  Normal  animal  and  insect sounds,  in  my  area,  were
silenced.  A  light breeze, present before the  object  appeared,
disappeared.  Everything  became very still, as  the  object  was
approaching and while it was hovering.

 The  Moon  was still below the horizon. The sky  was  clear  and
dark, with stars clearly visible.

 A  "scanner" radio, I was monitoring, picked up severe noise  30
seconds  before, during, and while the object moved away from  my
location.

I did not experience any electrical effects (tingling or  prickly
sensations) during the sighting.

 The  sighting  lasted approximately 45 seconds.  There  was  not
enough time to get a camera and take pictures.

 Within  10  minutes, after the object left the area,  eight  Air
Force   jet  fighters  (F-4s,  judging  from  their   sound   and
appearance) and moving very fast, went overhead traveling in  the
same  direction  the  object had taken -owards  the  North.  Four
minutes  later, the fighters returned, heading south. I  presumed
the  object had been spotted by their radar. Their  quick  return
would indicate they lost radar contact with the object.

* * *

Report  # 3 By Staff # 2: Date: August 11, 1989, Time:  1500  PDT
Location: K-2

 Following the events of the night before, I made a quick trip to
check out the K-2 area.

 Observation:  There  was  a "burned" or  scorched  area  on  the
ground,  30  feet  in  diameter, at the  LZ-1  (landing  zone  1)
apparently, where an object had landed. In the rush to get there,
I  forgot  to take my camera. No pictures  were  obtained.  After
further  checking out the area, I left. I decided to  return  the
next day with a camera to get pictures of the burn marks.

* * *

Report  # 4 By Staff # 2: Date: August 12, 1989, Time:  1300  PDT
Location: K-2

 Observation:  Another  quick trip to K-2 -- this time  with  the
camera.

 "This  second trip -- brought a surprise. The burned round  mark
on  the  ground  wasn't there (the one I  had  observed  the  day
before.  The 30 foot diameter burned area). It looks like  "they"
(the  Greys)  had  removed everything that would  show  they  had
landed  there. I did some digging, but there was nothing to  show
for  it. They had replaced the ground (the burned area) with  new
soil, including the dead grass that covers the ground. They  seem
to know we are on to them, and are making it difficult for us  to
prove anything. From now on, the camera goes with me everywhere."
See Exhibits 19 and 20.

Memo August 12, 1989 From Staff # 1 To: Staff # 2

 Our contacts in the Air Force verify that on the night of August
10, 1989, at the time indicated in Report # 1 of that date,  that
eight  F-4's,  scrambled  from Beale AFB, CA. They  had  a  brief
radar-lock,  on  a "bogie" in the area described.  However,  they
lost the target, due to ground clutter when it suddenly descended
into  the mountainous terrain. They returned to the base  when  a
further sweep of the area proved fruitless.

 You're right, the AF had a blip on their radar, but lost it when
the ship dropped into that 20-mile approach corridor between  the
valleys and the radar dead zone.

* * *

Comments by Staff # 1 Date: 8/15/89, Time: 1300 PDT

 The events taking place, as described in the preceding  reports,
indicate  on-going activity at the K-2 site. This activity,  adds
weight  to  the conclusions and evidence gathered by  our  Survey
Team.  Those findings were included in the "K-2, Special  Report"
Dated  7/28/89. These recent events taking place at K-2  validate
our initial findings.

* * *

Comments by Staff # 1 Date: 8/29/89

 Observations of night-time activity at K-2, over the past month,
indicate  that  alien crafts are making supply runs at  two  week
intervals.  All of our attempts, on site, to photograph or  video
tape  their  arrival, unloading and departures have  failed.  The
aliens seem to detect our presence even though we have made every
effort to remain concealed. On two occasions, from our  concealed
location,  we have observed one of their craft making  a  landing
approach. The craft suddenly veers off, about two miles from  the
base,  and  quickly  leaves  the area.  For  both  practical  and
economic  reasons  we cannot continue this surveillance.  In  our
opinion,  we  have validated the existence of the  base  and  the
alien activity associated with this site.

* * * ADDENDUM:

6/23/92 ADDITIONAL CONCLUSION

 Previously, we mentioned the extreme curiosity exhibited by U.S.
Forest Rangers, and their barrage of questions while we conducted
the  scientific  survey of K-2 in July of 1989.  The  reason  for
their  conduct and questions became known in August of  1989  and
during  the course of subsequent investigations at K-2. Refer  to
Exhibit 21.

 As a result of the public disclosure of the Alien Base  revealed
in  this report, it will prove most interesting to  observe  what
action  is taken by any unit of the U.S. Government to deal  with
this  situation. It is doubtful they will allow an Alien Base  to
operate right under their noses.

 This  would  be an excellent occasion for the public,  in  large
numbers,  to  camp  out at the K-2 site,  use  their  home  video
cameras  to  record  what activity occurs and  whether  they  are
ordered to leave the area.

 Also, without a doubt, it is not difficult to predict a scenario
in  which well-paid and learned government experts will  proclaim
that no alien base exists at K-2. In the interim, nobody would be
surprised,  would they (??), if the area was suddenly fenced  off
by a double perimeter chain-link fence and patrolled by  security
guards.  The  public may even be denied any access to  the  area.
Now, what would that suggest to you?

 It's  something of a Catch-22 situation for the government.  Any
action  taken  to suppress the alien base will  be  revealed  and
noticed by the public, and any inction, hoping people will forget
it,  allows the aliens to continue their operations. It's  a  bad
situation  for the aliens, as well. All the publicity and  people
hanging  around the area will disrupt their activities.  Somehow,
the  term  "poetic  justice" seems  correct  in  this  situation.
Perhaps you'll agree.

K-2 DATA EXHIBIT PACKAGE

LIST OF EXHIBITS

 Exhibit 1: Quincy - La Porte Area Map.

 Exhibit  2:  Aeronautical Chart of K-2 Area  detailing  Military
Operation  Areas (MOA's) Boundaries, Radar coverage and  approach
corridors.

 Exhibit 3: Expanded Topographic Map of K-2 Site.

 Exhibit 4: Text - Detailed Magnetometer Data of K-2, Section 3.

 Exhibit  5:  K2Q3S3  (Quad 3, Section 3)  Magnetic  Field  Stats
indicating  section line numbers, line stations and  magnetometer
readings.

 Exhibits  6 A,B,C,D: K2Q3S3 Top View. Detailed Magnetic  Profile
Charts of Section 3 survey lines.

 Exhibit  7:  K2Q3S3  High-Resolution  Magnetic  Contour  Map  of
Section 3, Quad 3, indicating major underground features.

 Exhibit  7A: Text - Describing the hidden underground  parts  of
the  Alien  base,  in  the area surveyed,  and  revealed  by  the
Magnetometer Data.

 Exhibit 8: Text - K2SCARP Magnetic Data (Section 3) Re-Survey of
lines 30, 40, and 50, for expanded details of Item A, line 40.

 Exhibit  9: K2SCARP Top View, Magnetic Profile of Lines  30,  40
and 50.

 Exhibit  10:  K2SCARP  Magnetic  Contour  Map  showing  expanded
features of Item A on Lines 30, 40, and 50.

 Exhibit  11:  Photo - of a section of the  modern  blackop  road
fronting the entrance to the K-2 Site.

 Exhibit  12:  Photo  - K-2 Site entrance  road  and  portion  of
Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1).

 Exhibit 13: Photo - LZ-1 and the Alien Base.

 Exhibit 14: Photo - South end of Alien Base and LZ-2.

 Exhibit 15: Photo - The mysterious Dike and Pond.

 Exhibit  16: Photo - The Rock Scarp detailed on Line 40  of  the
magnetometer data.

 Exhibit 17: Photo - Medium view of the overall K-2 Site, landing
areas and the Alien base.

 Exhibit 18: Photo - Long View of K-2 showing the hidden approach
corridors to the site.

 Exhibit 19: Photo - Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1).

 Exhibit 20: Photo - Landing Zone 1 (LZ-1) showing landing marks.

 Exhibit 21: Text - Describing latest finding regarding K-2.

 All  of the exhibits listed in this report are contained in  the
printed  K-2  Report available from the  publisher.  All  printed
versions  of  the  Phoenix Project Special  Reports  contain  the
exhibits  referenced in the reports text. Send a  self-addressed,
stamped  envelope  to Advent Publishing Company, P.O.  Box  3748,
Carson City, Nevada 89702, for a list of Phoenix Project  Special
Reports.

SPECIAL NOTE:

 Very  recently,  the  Phoenix Project  conducted  an  undercover
investigation of the U.S. Forest Service Headquarters at  Quincy,
California.   That  investigation  has  revealed  startling   new
information. A Special "K-2 Supplemental Report," will be  issued
in  the  near  future. It will reveal this  new  information  and
contain exhibits of the evidence obtained.

END OF FILE
PARANET FILENAME:  K2RPT.REP


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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (George Matthew Rice) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bad Bull Bill) writes:
>>
>>You Fools! Perot is a grey.
>>How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
>>Why did he suddenly decide to run?
>>Why is he so secretive?
>>Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes Pres?
>>Why is he so scared of the press?
>>Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
>>Who is he really reporting to?
>>
>
>Why are you so paranoid ?

Read his file and you'll know. :)
>
>Matthew

Charles Buckley            Even paranoids have enemies
                                - Henry Kissenger
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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret??
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-19-92 20:05

Below is another contribution from the Phoenix Project, a mysterious group
located in Carson City, Nevada.  This file details some new information
concerning MJ-12.  As before, ParaNet makes no claims to the accuracy or
validity of the information.  It is being provided for information only and is
not to be construed as an endorsement by ParaNet.  This document also gets a
similar rating of highly unreliable as the previous documents concerning Dulce,
New Mexico and the K-2 alien base.  The reader will note that the author
appears to be unfamiliar with the major players as they note that the person in
charge of the underground hangar facility is William C. Cooper. They go on to
state that this person is the famous UFOlogist that we love and admire so much,
Milton "Bilkum" William Cooper.  Obviously, they are either way off base with
their accuracy, or they have deliberately done this to throw us off the scent
as to who the real authors of this material are.  It does bear a strange
resemblance to Cooper's allegations.  It would not surprise ParaNet to find
that deep beneath the public layer of the Phoenix Project we might find John
Grace, John Lear and of course, Bill Cooper.  If not, then someone closely
related to them coming at us under a new name, of course, since the other names
have been so hopelessly trashed.

So, with that in mind, let's proceed . . .

The contributor of this file can be contacted
via CompuServe, E-mail at PPN 72730.3636

[ultsec.doc] transmitted as ultsec.txt and ultsec.zip

             The "Phoenix Project Reports"
                   Are Published By

               ADVENT PUBLISHING COMPANY
                     P.O. Box 3748
                Carson City,  NV  89702

          Entire Contents Copyright (c) 1992
                          by
                  The Phoenix Project
                         Logo
              A Registered Trademark (tm)

        Permission to quote is granted provided
   the Phoenix Project is acknowledged as the source
and the Report Title and Date are included in any quotes.
Reproduction of any Phoenix Project Report or Logo, in
any formor by any means, is not permissible without written
           authorization from the publisher

          [ Contributor's Note: Permission is
          granted to forward this text file to
          any Bulletin Board service providing
          that nothing is deleted and that all
          copyright rules are followed. ]
- - - - - - - - -
             WHAT IS THE PHOENIX PROJECT?

   The Phoenix Project is a private, civilian, research
organization formed in 1952 to investigate and correlate
information concerning Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)
and Extra-Terrestrial (ET) activities. It has no
affiliation with the United States Government or any of
its agencies.  Because of the nature of its work the
Phoenix Project does not seek publicity.

   Staff members are former military personnel who have
all been associated with intelligence activities, and
have knowledge of covert government operations concerning
UFO's. Their knowledge of the specialized field of
"intelligence correlation," provide unique insights into
various subject matter.

   From time-to-time and in the public interest, the
Phoenix Project will publish research reports regarding
certain subjects. A list of reports is available from our
publisher.  All correspondence should be addressed to:

                  The Phoenix Project
             C/O Advent Publishing Company
                     P.O. Box 3748
                Carson City, NV  89702

                    IMPORTANT NOTE

The name "Phoenix" is used by many different publishers
and organizations as a part of the name used in their
various publications.

To avoid any false association with or confusion that
might be caused by a similar name, all publications of
the "Phoenix Project" bear the Project's Logo (a
registered trade-mark) and are published exclusively by
Advent Publishing Company. The "Phoenix Project" is not
affiliated with any other publication, publisher,
organization or group.

In particular, there is no affiliation with a publisher
known as America West, any of its publications, or the
individuals known as George and Desiree Green, all of
Tehachapi, California.

- - - - -
Origination, 8/4/89
Revision 1,  7/24/91
Revision 2,  5/5/92

                  THE ULTIMATE SECRET

             A Special Report and Overview
            Prepared by The Phoenix Project

                      OVERVIEW:

   The Top Secret Operation Majestic-12 was established
by order of President Harry S. Truman in 1947. Operation
Majestic-12, was created to take charge of the technical,
sociological and other aspects of the crashed UFOs and
the small alien occupants, dead or alive, that were
recovered. In later years this operation evolved into and
became known as MAJI (the Majority Agency for Joint
Intelligence). MAGI is the most secret of all
intelligence groups and out-ranks all other intelligence
agencies including the National Security Agency (NSA) and
the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). MAJI is
responsible directly and "only" to the President of the
United States.

<Continued in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:12:11 GMT
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-19-92 20:06

<...Continued from previous message>


/ MAJIC / MAJI

   The TOP SECRET / MAJI project control group is
responsible for every aspect of interface with the alien
lifeforms including security and intelligence, and
disinformation to prevent public or foreign disclosure of
the alien presence. (This is why all documents referring
to "MJ-12" or any other form of that name are wrong).
MAJI is on-going in Washington DC.

   MAJIC: Is the security classification of all MAJI and
Aquarius information. MAJIC means "MAJI CONTROLLED."
MAJIC is the highest security classification in the
nation.

   MJ-1: DIRECTOR OF MAJI.  The Director of the CIA is
usually MJ-1 and reports only to the President.  Other
members of MAJI are designated MJ-2, MJ-3, MJ-4, etc.
This is the reason MJ-12 cannot be used as a name for the
control group as it would cause confusion in meaning,
i.e., (Is it referring to MJ-12 the person or MJ-12 the
group.)  Any reference to MJ-12 is to a person and
nothing else. References and documents referring to
"MJ-12" as a "Group" are incorrect.

   MAJI, originally was known as Majestic-12, a group
consisting of twelve members. This group was made up of
a team representing selected government officials, U.S.
intelligence personnel, highly trained scientists,
business executives and military personnel. All were
sworn to total secrecy. MAJI has continued its covert
activities with the knowledge and consent of the last
eight Presidents. (See Exhibit 1, part of the briefing
papers for president-elect Eisenhower.)

   The group continues to function today and has had the
responsibility of establishing an ongoing relationship
dating from 1964, with UFO beings (the Greys) from the
third planet of the star system Zeta Reticuli.

   Information forwarded to and the activity of MAJI has
always been assigned an Above "Top Secret
classification," known as MAJIC. MAJI, to conceal its
existence, adopted the cover name of "Majestic-12." It
created numerous covert and compartmented sub-divisions
such as Projects Aquarius, Sigma, Snowbird and Garnet, to
name a few. These projects were sheltered by MAJI and
directed by select personnel of the Central Intelligence
Agency (CIA) and the National Security Agency (NSA).

   By secret Executive Memorandum NSC 5410, Eisenhower
had preceded NSC 5412/1 in 1954 to establish a permanent
committee to be known as Majority Twelve to oversee and
conduct all covert activities concerned with the alien
question. NSC 5412/1 was created to explain the purpose
of these meetings when Congress and the news media became
curious. Majority Twelve was made up of Nelson
Rockefeller, the director of the CIA Allen Welsh Dulles,
the Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, the Secretary
of Defense Charles E. Wilson, the Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff Admiral Arthur W. Radford, the Director
of the FBI J. Edgar Hoover, and six men from the
executive committee of the Council on Foreign Relations
known as the "Wise Men." These men were all members of a
secret society of scholars that called themselves "The
Jason Society," or "The Jason Scholars" who recruited
their members from the "Skull and Bones" and the "Scroll
and Key" societies of Harvard and Yale.

   The "Wise Men" were key members of the Council on
Foreign Relations. There were twelve members including
the first six from Government positions thus Majority
Twelve. This group was made up over the years of the top
officers and directors of the Council on Foreign
Relations and later the Trilateral Commission. Gordon
Dean, George Bush, and Zbigniew Brzezinski were among
them. The most important and influential of the "Wise
Men" who served on Majestic-12 were John McCloy, Robert
Lovett, Averell Harriman, Charles Bohlen, George Kennan,
and Dean Acheson. It is significant that President
Eisenhower as well as the first six Majestic-12 members
from the Government were also members of the Council on
Foreign Relations. However, not all the "Wise Men"
attended Harvard or Yale and not all of them were chosen
from the "Skull and Bones" or "Scroll and Key" membership
during their college years. [{Research indicates that
various members were chosen on an ongoing basis by
invitation based upon merit and was not confined to those
who had attended only Harvard or Yale}] Further
information regarding this can be obtained from the book
"The Wise Men" by Walter Issacson and Even Thomas, Simon
and Schuster, New York.

   A chosen few were later initiated into the Jason
Society. They are all members of the Council on Foreign
Relations and at that time were known as the "Eastern
Establishment." The Jason Society is alive and well today
but has expanded to include members of the Trilateral
Commission as well. The Trilateralists' existed secretly
several years before 1973. The name of the Trilateral
Commission was taken from the alien flag known as the
"Trilateral Insignia."  See Exhibit 10A The Jason
Society.

<Continued in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-19-92 20:06

<<...Continued from previous message>>


- - - - -

BACKGROUND:

   In 1947 and again in the early 1950's, Army and Air
Force military units -- on direct orders from the
Pentagon -- rushed to various sites of UFO crashes
located in the Southwestern part of the United States and
carted away the unearthly remains. Remains consisting of
both crashed UFOs and their alien occupants. The 1947
events prompted the creation of Operation Majestic-12 by
President Truman.

   The wreckage and dead bodies obtained from these early
crash retrievals were originally stored at Wright
Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio. According to
military sources who later went against orders and
decided to talk, Hangar 18 was used for this purpose. All
reports of crashed UFOs and extraterrestrial contacts
have always bypassed normal reporting procedures and
channels of the military, and other intelligence
agencies. Instead, they were sent directly to Project
Aquarius. (See Exhibits 2 and 3).

   All "hard" information regarding UFOs was routed
directly to Operation Majestic-12. This explains why
other intelligence agencies and Project Bluebook, [the
official and public Air Force investigative activity]
never received this information or knew about crashed
UFOs, recovered spacecraft, or alien beings.

   In later years, a joint CIA/AF covert operation, using
six C-124 aircraft, recovered the wreckage, instruments,
dead bodies and alien artifacts of crashed UFOs from
Wright Patterson and other Air Force bases, world-wide,
and moved them to a newly-built, underground, storage
facility at Edwards Air Force, California. The entrance
to this underground facility is through a hangar located
at the end of the same runway now used by NASA's space
shuttles. According to eye-witness testimony, the CIA
agent in charge of this covert operation, wearing the
uniform of an AF Colonel, was William C. Cooper.

   Note: The information in the preceding paragraph was
supplied by an eye-witness who participated in the covert
operation described, working side-by-side with the CIA
agent in charge. This witness testifies that this is the
same William C. Cooper, who has been prominent since 1988
in the civilian UFO movement.

CONCLUSIONS:

   The Ultimate Secret, is that MAJI and the U.S.
government has in its possession spaceships manufactured
on other worlds, as well as the occupants of those
interstellar crafts. And, that since 1964, has maintained
radio contact with the aliens through Project Sigma. They
have also entered into various technical and "trade
agreements" with the beings from Zeta Reticuli, named the
Greys. (See Exhibit 4).

   Note: Communication with the Greys (by Project Sigma)
has been an accomplished fact since April of 1964.
Therefore, the NASA sponsored "SETI" Program (The Search
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) is merely being used
as another method to provide covert funding for MAJI
projects under the guise of a legitimate program. (See
Exhibit 5).

   The Greys, as their part of the trade agreements, were
to provide MAJI and the U.S. government with various
forms of advanced technology. In exchange, the Greys are
provided with secret bases of operation within the United
States; bases protected by the Greys and U.S. Military
forces. In exchange, MAJI agreed to conceal all knowledge
of their presence.

   Part of the "trade agreements" was an exchange program
that allowed the aliens to abduct U.S. Citizens for
experimental medical, psychological and genetic research
purposes -- the Grey's were to provide lists of persons
abducted to the National Security Agency (NSA), for later
government follow-up if such persons, when released,
required medical assistance or psychological adjustment.

ADDENDA

   During 1972-1973, a period of two years, an area South
of Groom Lake (one of the nation's most secret test
centers in Nevada) was closed and a huge underground
facility was constructed for and with the help of the
Greys. This facility was built South of Area-51 in
another location named Area-S4.  This location is just
east of, and adjacent to the Nevada Atomic Test site.

   The bargained for technology was set in place, but
could only be operated by the Grey's themselves, to
prevent their advanced technology being used against
them. Another secret underground base was provided the
Greys in a location known as the "Ice Caves" near the Los
Alamos Laboratory Facility in New Mexico. Over a period
of the next six years, four more secret bases were
provided the Greys in other isolated areas of the United
States.

   During the years 1979 through 1983, it became
increasingly obvious to MAJI that things were not going
as planned. It became known that many more people (in the
thousands) were being abducted than were being listed on
the official abduction list. The list the Greys were
supplying the National Security Council, and MAJI. It was
apparent that the abductions included much more than the
simple monitoring experiments of an advanced
civilization.

   In late 1979, things had gotten almost entirely out of
hand when it became known that the Greys had implanted a
tiny probe, 3mm. in size, into the brains of certain
abductees before releasing them. MAJI investigators
determined the probe could be used to hypnotically and
telepathically program and monitor the person. In
addition, some abductees were programmed with unknown
post-hypnotic commands. The Greys also implanted tracking
devices just under the skin, on some abductees to monitor
their movements.    Attempts, by hypnosis, to determine
the nature of the hypnotic programming and commands
implanted by the Greys, triggered life-threatening
physical symptoms in these individuals making these
efforts unsuccessful. It was later discovered that the
Greys were performing genetic cross-breeding experiments
on some of the human female abductees. In 1983, MAJI
discovered the full magnitude of the Grand Deception put
over by the Greys. They were also shocked when the Soviet
Union (USSR) admitted that they, too, had been deceived
and that the Greys had entered into similar Treaties and
agreements with them. MAJI was in a state of confusion
and near panic as they realized their plans were dashed,
along with their hopes and dreams of obtaining the Grey's
technology and the secrets of interstellar spaceflight.

   This caused MAJI to become split along factional
lines. One faction advocating confessing the scheme and
the shambles it had become to the public, begging their
forgiveness and asking for their support. Note: This
faction is responsible for the leaks of sensitive
information regarding the activities of Operation
Majestic-12. The other faction rejected this saying there
was no way they could do that, even though the situation
was untenable, stating there was no use in alarming the
public of either country with the horrible truth.

<Continued in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-19-92 20:07

<<<...Continued from previous message>>>


   This second faction won out and their plan to develop
a weapon that could be used against the Greys was
accepted by the Soviet Union. Under the guise of "SDI,"
(a joint US/Soviet effort) the Strategic Defense
Initiative (Star Wars), this weapon was developed. SDI,
has nothing whatever to do with a defense against Soviet
nuclear missiles. The nick-name "Star Wars" was closer to
the truth than the uninformed public realized.

   The "alarm," publicly expressed by the Soviet Union
regarding SDI, and its opposition to the program, were
all artfully crafted to conceal the joint nature of the
program and to prevent the Greys learning its real
purpose. The United States and the Soviet Union have been
secret allies since 1983.

   Primarily, SDI is a weapon for use against the Greys'
underground bases or any attempted invasion from space.
However, to achieve funding from Congress and support
from the people, and to conceal its real nature from the
Greys, it had to be presented as a defense against a
nuclear strike from the USSR.

   The Soviet equivalent of MAJI used the same technique,
the development of a weapon to protect their country from
a U.S. nuclear strike, to obtain covert funding for the
joint effort.

   The threat from the Greys is taken so seriously by
MAJI, that President Reagan adamantly refused any
concessions on SDI. He continued to vigorously pursue its
development, and deployment, in spite of uninformed
scientific and congressional opposition. These opponents
never knew its real and intended purpose.

   To accomplish the true objectives of the SDI program,
MAJI created another ultra-secret project -- Project
Zeus. Project Zeus is revealed here for the first time.

   Project Zeus, created under the umbrella of MAJI, is
charged with the real purpose, direction, management,
development and eventual deployment of the SDI Weapons
System. It was aptly named for the mythical Greek God --
Zeus. Only this time, it would be an angry Zeus hurling
laser and particle beam lightning bolts into the heavens
-- against an alien attack or, deflected by mirrors,
against secret alien bases on the Earth.

   In 1984, President Reagan in a public address
established the tone and seriousness of this endeavor
when he deliberately, or inadvertently, let slip the
remarks that the world may one day unite to fight a
threat from outer space. This was followed by a series of
subsequent remarks during the latter days of his term of
office.  (See Exhibit 7).

   The basic information revealing the existence of
Operation Majestic-12, the crashed UFOs, alien beings,
and their secret bases within the United States, was
obtained through the Freedom of Information Act from the
files of the CIA, NSA, FBI, State Department, the U.S.
Air Force. Other intelligence data obtained by The
Phoenix Project has contributed to this report.

   These documents reveal the "Above Top Secret" nature
of Operation Majestic-12. They also verify that the
scientific discovery of all time has been hidden from the
people of Earth, and that both communications and
relationships with extraterrestrial alien beings have
already been achieved. And, that the radical new
technology the Greys possess could alter human
civilization overnight.

   Some of these documents obtained by various civilian
researchers, verify the fact that we are not alone in the
universe. The additional information contained in this
report, i.e., notes and comments, and some of the
conclusions (in the addenda) are based on intelligence
information from other confidential sources.

PROJECT ZEUS

   In 1980, Lt. General Daniel O. Graham -- Department of
Defense Strategic Analyst, stated: "We need a bold new
approach. We must stop competing with the Greys in areas
where we can't win, and begin to compete where we have
the advantage."

   The result:  A book by General Graham entitled "The
High Frontier," and the National Security Agency (NSA)
funded "Project High Frontier." This project used some of
the nation's best engineers and development scientists.

   This book and the project were the "red herring"
technique to sell the concept and proposal to Congress,
scientists, and the defense and aerospace industries. It,
supposedly, was a bold, new, defense plan for the United
States and Western Civilization.

   This was followed by another book "The Strategy of
Technology" by Stefan Possony and Jerry Pournelle. It
should be mentioned that neither of these two authors
dreamed their book would be used to further promote the
purposes of MAJI and Project Zeus. Its concept was to
abandon the doctrine of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD),
in favor of Assured Survival, in any conflict with the
USSR.

   The foregoing concepts (a Western Civilization Defense
Plan) and the covert efforts directed against the Greys
(Project Zeus) orchestrated by MAJI, were presented to
President Ronald Reagan. That presentation was
successful. On March 23, 1983, President Reagan made his
famous "Star Wars" speech -- and labeled it "The
Strategic Defense Initiative." Only in later speeches,
near the end of his term in office, did President Reagan
publicly mention the possibility of a hostile encounter
with extraterrestrials.

   The importance of this endeavor and the serious nature
of the threat presented by the Greys and the consequences
if Project Zeus were aborted, explain why the President
would not budge from his SDI position, even in the most
critical of nuclear arms' reduction negotiations with the
USSR, or critics in the scientific community and
Congress.

   It also explains why President George Bush, still the
head of MAJI, is continuing to press forward with the SDI
project.

   According to public statements by General James
Abrahamson, SDI Project Director, "SDI" research has
turned up five ways the weapon system could, and would
work.

<Continued in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-19-92 20:08

<<<<...Continued from previous message>>>>


   "SDI," (Project Zeus, the covert operation against any
possible space threat, threatening action or invasion
attempts by the Greys), "is based on two technological
discoveries:

   "1) That ground-based lasers are a feasible and a
likely way to defend a nation. Enormous lasers could be
built near large hydro-electric plants and operational
nuclear power plants, diverting the enormous output of
these sources to laser weapons. With such enormous lasers
and mirrors, in orbit to redirect the energy, it would
not be necessary to "point and shoot" such weapons; you
could raster an entire target area; sweeping the beam in
a deadly conical pattern to eliminate any target.
Planet-based laser weapons of such power could reach
beyond the Moon to engage and destroy hostile spaceships.

   "2) Press ahead with the research, development and
deployment of high-powered particle beam weapons from
orbiting space platforms and ground based installations."
(See Exhibit 8).

   MAJI's plans called for the funding, planning,
development, testing, and operational aspects of Project
Zeus to be concealed within the compartmented SDI
program. NASA, without knowledge of the real purpose
would orbit the necessary tracking and data relay
satellites, and Department of Defense (DOD) payloads of
laser mirrors. These SDI payloads were disguised and
classified as military communication, spy, and
navigational satellites.

ADDENDA - continued

   On April 4, 1983, Project Zeus "got off the ground"
with the maiden flight of the Space Shuttle Challenger --
a clear indication of the high-priority this project
commanded. The first of the SDI Tracking and Data Relay
Satellites (TDRS-A) was placed in orbit.

   This was followed on August 30, 1984, when the Shuttle
Discovery, on its maiden flight, launched SYNCOM IV-2 the
second communications satellite for the Department of
Defense (DOD).

   The SYNCOM satellites are DOD's high-priority command
and communications links with all U.S. military forces
worldwide. The on-going NASA Missions concerned with
Project Zeus and SDI, are identified in the attached
exhibits.

   Note: It is obvious that the Greys became suspicious
of the intense launch activity of NASA and the number of
Defense Department (DOD) payloads being placed in orbit
-- more than would logically be needed to counter a
nuclear strike by the USSR.

   Evidence to support this is their increasing
surveillance of the Space Shuttle missions and the
reported intercept, boarding, and inspection of the
Shuttle Discovery's cargo on 3/13/89. (See Exhibit 9).
They must suspect the real purpose of the SDI program. If
future SDI or DOD missions are interfered with it will
confirm this premise.

ABSTRACT:

   Operation Majestic-12 -- was created by the executive
order of President Truman on September 24, 1947, and its
first head was Dr. Vannevar Bush, the president's Chief
Science Advisor. The current head of Majestic-12 known
variously as Majority Twelve, Majority, MJ-12, Majority
Agency for Joint Intelligence (MAJI), was Vice President
and former CIA Director George Bush (1988). As of 1/8/89,
President George Bush. Today, this group operates under
the "public name" of the Senior Interagency Group (SIG).

   The organizational structure of MAJI, is as follows:

   GRUDGE/PROJECT AQUARIUS:  An umbrella group consisting
of MAJI, the CIA and the NSA in which all the various
compartments dealing with ET-related issues perform their
various functions. Under Project Aquarius four groups,
each consisting of several hundred persons, conducts
secret UFO investigations and research in four assigned
areas of the United States.  (See Exhibit 6)

   Separate projects under the umbrella of Project
Aquarius are:

   PROJECT GRUDGE:  This project was originally
established in 1953, by order of President Eisenhower and
is under the control of the CIA, NSA, and MAJI. Project
Grudge went underground and another project, Project
Sign, was established as a cover operation.

   In 1960, the Project's name was changed from Project
SIGN to Project Bluebook. Project Aquarius, became the
overall umbrella operation controlling all these
projects. Project Aquarius was funded by CIA confidential
funds (non-appropriated). The Project assumed full
responsibility for investigation and intelligence of
UFOs/IACs in December 1969 after Project Grudge/Blue Book
was closed. The purpose of Project Aquarius was to
collect all scientific, technological, medical and
intelligence information from UFO/IAC sightings and
contacts with alien lifeforms. This orderly file of
collected information has been used to advance the United
States' Space Program and provided the data needed to
develop present stealth technology.

   AQUARIUS; PROJECT PLATO:  Originally established as
part of Project SIGN in 1954 to establish diplomatic
relations with the Aliens. This Project was successful
when mutually acceptable terms were agreed upon. These
terms involved the exchange of technology for secrecy of
the Alien presence and non-interference in Alien affairs.
This Project is controlled by a secret task force
headquartered at the Los Alamos National Laboratories in
New Mexico and is ongoing.

   AQUARIUS; PROJECT SIGMA:  Conducts electronic
communications with extraterrestrials, part of an
on-going contact project run by and through the NSA since
as early as late 1963 which led to the Holloman AFB
incident of April 25, 1964. (See Exhibit 4).

   AQUARIUS; PROJECT GARNET:  Closed down, supposedly, on
completion of its studies. Project Garnet's purpose was
to investigate extraterrestrial influence on human
affairs and evolution.

   GRUDGE - AQUARIUS; PROJECT REDLIGHT:  Originally
established in 1954, the mission of Project Redlight was
to test fly recovered alien craft. This project, carried
out at Area 51 (Groom Lake) and Area S4 in Nevada was
postponed after every attempt resulted in destruction of
the craft and the death of the pilots.  Project Redlight
was resumed in 1972 and has since been partially
successful. UFO sightings of craft accompanied by black
helicopters are Project Redlight's assets. This project
is ongoing at Area 51 in Nevada.

   REDLIGHT; PROJECT SNOWBIRD:  Originally established in
1954. Its mission was to develop [using conventional
technology] and fly a flying saucer type craft for the
public. This project was successful when a craft was
built and flown in front of the press. This project was
used to explain UFO sightings and to divert public
attention from Project Redlight.

   AQUARIUS; PROJECT PLUTO:  Established to evaluate all
UFO/IAC information pertaining to the alien space
visitors. This project is ongoing. Pluto is the proword
for Pounce.

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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 6
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   PLUTO; PROJECT POUNCE:  Originally known as Project
Moondust, this project, was formed to recover all
downed/crashed craft and aliens and provided cover
stories and operations to mask the true endeavor when
necessary. Covers which have been used: crashed
experimental aircraft, construction, mining, etc. This
project has also been successful and continues to this
date.

   AQUARIUS; PROJECT GABRIEL:  This project was tasked
with developing a low frequency pulsed sound generator
when it was determined that the alien weapons and craft
would be vulnerable to this weapon. It is questionable
whether this project exists today. It was derived from
technology captured from Germany during and after WWII.
Intelligence sources have verified its previous existence
but cannot verify whether it is ongoing or has been
terminated.

   AQUARIUS; PROJECT EXCALIBUR:  Established to develop
a weapon which would destroy the alien underground bases
and any future underground bases which the aliens might
construct. It is to be a missile capable of penetrating
1000 meters of tufa/hard packed soil such as that found
in New Mexico with no operational damage. Missile apogee
is not to exceed 30,000 feet AGL. Impact must not deviate
in excess of 50 meters from a designated target. The
device is designed to carry a 1-megaton nuclear warhead.
This project is ongoing at the WX Division, LANL, Los
Alamos, New Mexico but is still in development.

   In a secured area of the basement of CIA Headquarters
in Langley, Virginia are sixteen columns of file cabinets
containing thousands of folders of documented information
collected from the beginning of the United States'
investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) and
Identified Alien Crafts (IAC). These are the files of
Operation Majestic-12 and Project Aquarius and are known
as "The Bible." This Bible contains all the various
reports on aspects of alien visitations. Each president,
since Truman, has been briefed on Operation Majestic-12.

   Some past and present members of Operation Majestic-12
and MAJI include:

   Dr. Vannevar Bush - Science Advisor to President
   Truman.
   Dr. Detley Bronk -- Former John's Hopkins
   University.
   General Nathan Twining -- Former Air Force Chief
   of Staff.
   Richard Helms -- Former Director, Central
   Intelligence Agency (CIA).
   General Robert Cutler -- Former Asst. to President
   Eisenhower.
   Admiral Roscow H. Hillenkoetter -- Former Director
   of CIA
   Nelson Rockefeller - Advisor, President Eisenhower
   - Jason Society.
   Averill Harriman - Council on Foreign Relations
   (CFR) - Jason Society.
   George Kennan - CFR - Jason Society.
   Charles Bohlen - CFR - Jason Society.
   Allen Dulles - Former Director CIA - Jason
   Society.
   Dean Acheson - Presidential Adviser - CFR - Jason
   Society.
   John Foster Dulles - Former Secretary of State -
   Jason Society.
   Charles E. Wilson - Former Secretary of Defense -
   Jason Society.
   Adm. Arthur W. Radford - Former Chairman, Joint
   Chiefs of Staff - Jason Society.
   J. Edgar Hoover - Former Director FBI.
   Harold Brown -- Former Secretary of Defense.
   General Vernon Walters -- Former Defense
   Department.
   James Scheslinger -- Former White House Press
   Secretary.
   Admiral Robert "Bobby" Inman -- National Security
   Agency (NSA).
   John J. McCloy - (CFR) - Jason Society.
   Robert Lovett - CFR - Jason Society.
   Dr. Henry Kissinger -- CFR - Former Presidential
   Adviser.
   Gordon Dean - CFR.
   Lt. General Daniel O. Graham -- Former Defense
   Department.
   Dr. Theodore Von Karmon -- Former Jet Propulsion
   Laboratory.
   Dr. Edward Teller -- Physicist -- Father of the
   H-Bomb.
   Zbigniew Brzezniski - (CFR) - Jason Society.
   Dr. Lew Allen -- Former Director CIA. Currently
   Director Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
   John Poindexter -- Former Head of the National
   Security Agency (NSA).
   William Webster -- Former Director - CIA.
   George Bush -- Former Director CIA. Currently
   President of the United States.
   Robert M. Gates -- Director CIA (1991).

   The existence of Operation Majestic-12 has been
revealed by the dissident element within Majority Twelve
and leaked to the public on at least three occasions:

   1) On April, 9, 1983 -- To independent television
documentary producer Linda Howe. Ms. Howe was under
contract with HBO (the cable TV network) to produce a
documentary entitled "UFOs -- The ET Factor."  On the
above date, Ms. Howe was shown a document regarding
Majestic-12, by an Air Force officer. It was entitled "A
Briefing Paper for the President of the United States of
America on the Subject of Unidentified Flying Vehicles."
The name "Majic" was prominent at the head of the
document. (See Exhibit 1)

   Note: Former Agent Richard Doty, Air Force Office of
Special Investigations, is the officer mentioned in the
above paragraph.

   In December 1984, via the mail, in a plain brown
envelope, to private UFO investigator Bill Moore and his
film producer friend, and associate, Mr. Jaime Shandera.
Mr. Bill Moore is a well known private UFO investigator,
and is co-author, with Charles Berlitz, of the book "The
Roswell Incident."  Unknown to the public is the fact
that Bill Moore was recruited as an agent of the CIA.

   The envelope contained an undeveloped roll of 35mm
film. When the film was processed it contained a
photograph of a briefing paper prepared for
President-elect Eisenhower, and other documents. The
first page of the document is reproduced and shown as
Exhibit A. Other sections of the document contained
information regarding details of crashed UFOs and
humanoid bodies, and information regarding the
ultra-secret Operation Majestic-12 group which deals with
these issues.

   3) On May 31, 1987, when the existence of an
ultra-secret U.S. UFO Project -- "Majestic," was
published on the front page of the London Observer, a
British newspaper. British writer Timothy Good, had
obtained the information through sources connected with
England's Ministry of Defense. In 1988, it was alleged
that Bill Moore had become an agent of Operation
Majestic-12 and had been "planted" in the civilian UFO
movement for the purpose of providing dis-information to
mis-guide and confuse other UFO researchers.

<Continued in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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<<<<<<...Continued from previous message>>>>>>


NASA MISSIONS CONCERNED WITH PROJECT ZEUS AND SDI

   4/4/83 -- Project Zeus - SDI -- Shuttle Challenger,
Mission STS-6
NASA, KSC Release # 107-86

   The first flight of the Shuttle Challenger lifted off
at 1:30 p.m. EST this date. Payload: TDRS-A, a tracking
and data relay satellite, deployed on the first day of
the mission. This mission also included the first
spacewalk which lasted 4 hours and 17 minutes.

Commander: Paul H. Weitz
Pilot:     Karol H. Bobko

Mission Specialists:
Donald H. Peterson
Dr. Story Musgrave

   8/30/84 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-41-D.
NASA: Release # PMS-204-A

   The was the maiden flight of the Space Shuttle
Discovery. It was launched at 8:41 a.m., this date.

Payload: Two communications satellites (SBS-D and Telstar
3-C) and one SYNCOM IV-2 for DOD.

Commander: Henry W. Hartsfield, Jr.
Pilot:     Michael L. Coats

Mission Specialists:
Judith A. Resnick (female)
Steven A. Hawley
Richard M. Mullane

Payload Specialist: Charles D. Walker (McDonnell Douglas)

   11/8/84 -- Project Zeus -  SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS 51-A
NASA: Release # PMS-204-A, January 1988

   The Shuttle Discovery was launched at 7:15 a.m. this
date. STS 51-A had two primary objectives, to deploy the
ANIK-D2 (a Canadian communications satellite) and SYNCOM
IV-1 for DOD. In addition, to capture and return to Earth
two satellites placed in improper orbits by a faulty
launch from STS 41-G.

Payload: ANIK-D2 and SYNCOM IV-1 (DOD)

Commander:  Frederick H. Hauck
Pilot:      David M. Walker

Mission Specialists:
Joseph P. Allen
Anna L. Fisher (female)

   1/24/85 -- Project Zeus - - SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-51-C.
NASA, KSC Release # PMS-205, August 1986

   This was the first Space Shuttle mission totally
dedicated to the Department of Defense. Its cargo was
classified.

Commander: Thomas C. Mattingly
Pilot:     Loren H. Shriver

Mission Specialists:
James F. Buchli
Ellison S. Onizuka

Payload Specialist: Gary E. Payton, USAF

Note: The payload was two orbiting spy satellites and
three orbiting laser mirrors for SDI.

   4/12/85 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-51-D.
NASA, KSC Release # PMS)005, August 1986

   Discovery lifted off from KSC at 8:59 a.m. EST this
date. Payload: An Anik C-1 spacecraft (Satellite) for the
Canadian government, and SYNCOM IV-3 spacecraft with
satellite for the Defense Department (DOD).

   The SYNCOM series of rocket propelled communication
satellites each comes with its own booster stage,
identical to the third stage booster of a Minuteman
Missile. These satellites are used primarily for
Department of Defense (DOD) high-priority communications.

Commander: Karol H. Bobko
Pilot:     Donald E. Williams

Mission Specialists:
M. Rhea Seddon (female)
S. David Griggs
Jeffrey A. Hoffman

Payload Specialist: Charles D. Walker, McDonnell Douglas
Observer: E. H. "Jake" Garn - U.S. Senator.

   This flight included the first flight of an elected
official, Senator E. H. "Jake" Garn (R-Utah), Chairman of
the Senate committee with oversight responsibilities for
NASA's budget.

   6/17/85 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-51-G.
NASA, Release PMS-005, August 1986

   The Shuttle Discovery was launched at 7:33 a.m., this
date.

Payload: Three communication satellites (1 for Saudi
Arabia, 1 for Mexico and 1 Telstar for AT&T). In
addition, seven unnamed canisters were launched. Also
launched was the (HPTE) High Precision Tracking
Experiment for the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) --
Star Wars.

Commander: Daniel C. Brandenstein
Pilot:     John O. Creighton

Mission Specialists:
Shannon W. Lucid
Steven R. Nagel
John M. Fabian

Payload Specialists: Patrick Baudry (France) Prince
Sultan
Salman Al-Saud (Saudi Arabia)

   8/27/85 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-51-I.
NASA: Release PMS-005

   The Shuttle Discovery was launched at 6:58 a.m., this
date. This mission had the unusual responsibility of
recovering and repairing the SYNCOM IV-3 Satellite
launched by Discovery in April (Mission STS-51-D,
4/29/85).

   In addition, SYNCOM IV-4, for the DOD was launched and
deployed on 4/29/89. Two communications Satellites were
also launched: one for Australia and one for the American
Satellite Company.

<Continued in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Part 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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<<<<<<<...Continued from previous message>>>>>>>


Payload: SYNCOM IV-4 (DOD), Aussat-1, ASC-1.

Commander: Joe H. Engle
Pilot:     Richard O. Covey

Mission Specialists:
James Van Hoften
John M. Lounge
William S. Fisher

   10/3/85 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Atlantis,
Mission STS-51-J.
NASA Release # PMS-005 KSC

   This was the maiden flight of the Shuttle Atlantis and
the second mission dedicated solely to the Department of
Defense (DOD). Its cargo was classified. The mission was
declared successful.

Commander:  Karol J. "Bo" Bobko
Pilot:      Ronald H. Grabe

Mission Specialists:
David C. Hilmers
Robert L. Stewart

Payload Specialist: William Pailes (USAF)


   1/28/86 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Challenger,
Mission STS-51-L.
NASA: Release # PMS-005

   The Shuttle Challenger was launched at 11:37 a.m.,
this date. This was the first mission which included 2
women on the crew. At just under 74 seconds into the
flight an explosion occurred, which caused the loss of
the Shuttle Challenger and its crew.

Payload: A TDRS (Tracking and Data Relay) Satellite for
SDI, a Spartan free flying module designed to operate
independently of Challenger and to be used for observing
Halley's Comet with two ultra-violet spectrometers and 2
cameras.

Commander:  Francis R. Scobee
Pilot:      Michael J. Smith

Mission Specialists:
Judith A. Resnick (female)
Ellison Onizuka
Robert E. McNair
S. Christa McAuliffe (female) Teacher, passenger and
observer

Payload Specialist: Gregory B. Jarvis (Hughes Aircraft
Co.)

   9/29/88 -- Project Zeus -- SDI --Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-26.
NASA Pub # MR-026, NASA Facts, KSC Release No. 27-89

Payload: A 4,905 pound communications Satellite (The
Tracking and Data Relay Satellite-TDRS) one of the
largest and heaviest applications satellites ever sent
into orbit. TDRS-C was the prime objective of the
mission, and is expected to improve Earth-to-space and
space-to-earth voice and data exchanges. TDRS-C will
increase the capacity of command data flows for unmanned
research and applications satellites orbiting at
relatively low altitudes. The STS-26 crew are all
experienced astronauts.

Commander: Frederick H. Hauck (Capt. USN)
Pilot:     Richard Covey (Lt. Col. USAF)

Mission Specialists:
David C. Hilmers (Lt. Col. USAF)
John M. Lounge (USN, Retired)
George D. Nelson - Astronomer

   The TDRS-C satellite was lifted to its 22,302 mile
orbit by an AF IUS rocket, after being deployed by the
shuttle, for positioning over the equator north of the
Phoenix Islands, south of Hawaii, in the Pacific Ocean
(171 Degrees west longitude). There the satellite can
work in tandem with an identical TDRS-1 positioned in
geosynchronous orbit in 1983 over the Atlantic Ocean near
Fortaleza, Brazil (41 degrees west longitude). These two
satellites can act as data relays for other satellites.

   TDRS-C will maintain nearly uninterrupted
communications with the ground and will rapidly transmit
huge volumes of data.

   So vast is the capacity of these two satellites that,
at their highest transmission rates, they can in a single
second transfer data equaling the contents of a 20-volume
encyclopedia with 1200 pages in each volume and 2000
words on each page.

   A third Tracking and Data Relay Satellite, TDRS-D,
will be launched at a later date and deployed over the
Atlantic Ocean. It will replace TDRS-1, which will be
relocated south of White Sands, New Mexico where it will
serve as an in-orbit spare.

   One communications experiment inside the shuttle
spacecraft was the testing of a new voice communications
system using infrared waves rather than standard radio
frequencies. An advantage of infrared is it cannot pass
through the spacecraft's windows as can radio waves.
Infrared communications would prevent a spacecraft from
eavesdropping, thus protecting sensitive astronaut
conversations, and enhancing security, and the crew's
privacy.

   Note: This extraordinary procedure must pertain to the
Greys. Note the word "spacecraft."  Whose?  Earlier NASA
Missions had reported UFO encounters. The Greys are
suspicious.

   12/2/88 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Atlantis,
Mission STS-27.
NASA Facts, KSC Release No. 84-88

   The newest shuttle Atlantis lifted off today from
Kennedy Space Center on a classified mission for the
Department of Defense.

   This flight is the first of three national security
missions conducted in fiscal 1989 by NASA for the Defense
Department. STS-27 will have a five-member crew. All are
military personnel.

Commander: Robert L. Gibson (Cmdr. USN)
Pilot:     Guy S. Gardner (Lt.Col. USAF)

Mission Specialists:
Richard M. Mullane (Col. USAF)
Jerry L. Ross (Lt.Col. USAF)
William M. Shepard (Cmdr. USN)

   The Shuttle Atlantis has flown twice before: Mission
51-H in October 1985, a classified DOD mission; and 61-B
in November 1985.

   Note:  The payload consisted of two orbiting mirrors
for SDI (Project Zeus) and a communications and spy
satellite for DOD.

<Concluded in next message...>

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From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: MJ-12 The Ultimate Secret?? - Conclusion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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<<<<<<<<...Continued from previous message>>>>>>>>



   3/13/89 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Shuttle Discovery,
Mission STS-29.
NASA Facts, KSC Release No. 8-89

   The Space Shuttle Discovery launched at 9:57 a.m. EST
today has as its primary objective the deployment of a
Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (TDRS-D).

   The TDRS-D, to become TDRS-4 in orbit, will be
deployed on the first day of the mission. The satellite
will join TDRS-1 and -3 in orbit to provide high-capacity
communications and data links.

   TDRS-1, also designated TDRS-East, is now in
geosynchronous orbit over the Atlantic Ocean just east of
Brazil. TDRS-3, designated TDRS-West, was launched by
Discovery on mission STS-26 in September of 1988, and is
positioned over the Pacific Ocean south of Hawaii. TDRS-4
will replace TDRS-1 over the Atlantic as TDRS-East.
TDRS-1 will then be relocated south of White Sands, New
Mexico where it will serve as an in-orbit spare.

   The five member crew of Discovery for STS-29 are:

Commander: Michael L. Coats (Capt. USN)
Pilot:     John E. Blaha (Col. USAF)

Mission Specialists:
James F. Buchli (Col. USMC)
Robert C. Springer (Col. USMC)
James R. Bagian (M.D.) Civilian Doctor

   In addition to launching the TDRS Satellite, the crew
of Discovery will conduct numerous scientific experiments
and photograph the Earth with a hand-held IMAX camera.

   4/26/89 -- Project Zeus -- SDI -- Magellan Venus
Probe, Shuttle Atlantis,
Mission STS-30.
AP Wire:

   The Atlantis commander says his crew is mighty proud
to be part of the first space shuttle planetary mission
scheduled to blast-off this Friday. The countdown, which
started Tuesday, continued toward a liftoff at 2:24 p.m.
Friday.

   Six hours after launch, astronauts Mark Lee and Mary
Cleave are to release the 7,600-pound Magellan probe and
a rocket to propel it on a 468-day journey to Venus.
Magellan is to reach its destination in August 1990,
swooping into orbit around Venus to begin a 243-day
period during which it is to map up to 90 percent of the
cloud-shrouded planet's surface with the probe's high
resolution radar system.

   "We're not really in charge of the deep space probe,"
said Commander David Walker. "We're fortunate enough to
be part of the team that gets to send it up there. The
rest of the NASA team will make sure that it gets to
Venus and does its job."

UPDATE:  NASA, KSC Release # 24-89, March 1989

   Magellan marks the first U.S. planetary mission since
Pioneer Venus 12 in 1978. It also kicks off a core
program of solar system exploration involving NASA and
organizations from the United States and the
international community.

   Project ZEUS:  One of the payload experiments on this
Shuttle Mission includes the Mesoscale Lighting
Experiment, a NASA sponsored effort involving several
universities. Its objective is to study the visual
characteristics of large scale lighting in the upper
atmosphere.

   Note: Part of the Project Zeus effort to study laser
beam diffusion in the upper atmosphere.

   In addition, as another experiment, the Shuttle
Atlantis will act as a calibration point for a third
experiment involving the Air Force Maui Optical System
Facility in Hawaii.

   Note: Project Zeus - SDI Experiment.

   Although unstated in this NASA Release, Atlantis is
acting as an orbital target being tracked by the Air
Force facility (SDI ground based laser facility) named in
the above paragraph.

   1989 -- 8/8/89 -- Project Zeus - SDI -- Shuttle
Columbia -- Mission ??
AP Wire & Mercury News Service 7/27/89

   The Space Shuttle Columbia lifts off with five
military astronauts and a classified Pentagon spy
satellite. Columbia will be making the 30th shuttle
flight and the fourth this year, solely dedicated to the
Defense Department. For national security purposes, the
Pentagon would not permit NASA to announce the exact
liftoff time or the length of the mission.

   Note: The payload is the last of 4 orbiting laser
mirrors for SDI. With this mission completed, SDI becomes
partly operational. It is estimated that SDI will become
fully operational within the next 12 months, barring
unforeseen events.

   Note: The following NASA launch information was
derived from the American Academic Encyclopedia. The
Project Zeus (SDI) comments, are those of the Phoenix
Project.

   1989 -- 8/13/89 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Columbia

The 30th mission, flown by Brewster H. Shaw, Jr., and a
crew of four, orbited another military satellite.

   1989 -- 11/22/89 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Discovery

The 32d mission, flown on Discovery by Frederick M.
Gregory and a crew of four, launched a spy satellite.

   1990 -- 1/9/90 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Columbia

On Jan. 9, 1990, Daniel Brandenstein and a crew of four
flew Columbia to launch Syncom IV and to retrieve the
Long Duration Exposure Facility, a research satellite
left in space for six years.

   1990 -- 2/28/90 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Atlantis

Another spy satellite mission followed on Feb. 28-Mar. 4,
1990, when John O. Creighton and a crew of four flew
Atlantis.

   1990 -- 4/24/90 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Discovery

The long-awaited Hubble SPACE TELESCOPE was finally
placed in a high orbit by Discovery's crew of four,
commanded by Loren J. Shriver, during the Apr. 24-29,
1990 flight, but Columbia, scheduled for launch the
following month, was grounded by a series of hydrogen
leaks, as was Atlantis.

   1990 -- 11/15/90 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Atlantis

The 37th flight of the space shuttle program took place
on Atlantis, from Nov. 15-20, 1990, carrying a secret
military payload into orbit. Unconfirmed reports
suggested that Atlantis carried a spy satellite intended
to monitor activities in Iraq and the Persian Gulf
region. Mission commander was Air Force Col. Richard O.
Covey, and he was assisted by a crew of four.

   1991 -- 4/28/91 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Discovery

Space shuttle Discovery was launched on Apr. 28, 1991,
and returned to Earth on May 6. Its military mission was
concerned with collecting data for the Strategic Defense
Initiative ("Star Wars") antimissile program. Mission
commander was U.S. Navy Capt. Michael L. Coats. He was
assisted by a pilot and crew of four.

   1991 -- 8/2/91 -- Project Zeus - SDI - Shuttle
Atlantis

Flight number 42 for the Space Shuttle program--and the
ninth for the Atlantis--was launched on Aug. 2, 1991, and
returned safely to Earth on August 11. The crew, under
the command of Air Force Col. John E. Blaha, consisted of
three men and one woman. The mission successfully
deployed the Department of Defense's large Tracking and
Data Relay Satellite, sending it into an orbit about
22,000 miles (35,400 km) above the equator. The mission
also conducted experiments on the ozone layer, made
medical experiments, and tested computer and mechanical
equipment.

....end of file

[ For a complete, printed copy of the entire document,
including all exhibits, contact Advent Publishing Company
at the address supplied. ]

END
PARANET FILENAME:  ULTSEC.TXT

--
ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: ParaNet(sm)[e-mail]
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!rutgers!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service
From: [e-mail] (sm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Ultimate Secret Correction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:15:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 45


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from ParaNet(sm) Information Service
 * Originally dated 07-19-92 20:14

This file was uploaded to ParaNet separately as a correction to a portion of
the ULTSEC.TXT file.  I have not incorporated it into the original file so that
you can see what was intended to be changed.  It is incorporated as an addendum
to the original file.

[PPRCOR.TXT]
This is a correction that should be inserted to replace the
original text to the Phoenix Project Report ULTSEC.TXT, ULTSEC.ZIP.
For those who received it as messages over various echoes the area
to be replaced falls into part 8 of 17.


     Separate projects under the umbrella of Project Aquarius are:

     PROJECT GRUDGE:  This project was originally established in
1948, and is under the control of the CIA, NSA, and MAJI. Project
Grudge went underground and another project, Project Sign, was
created in December of 1947, was used as a cover operation.

     In February of 1949, Project Sign was officially abolished,
however, unofficially it continued its operations until Project
Blue Book was created in June of 1951. Project Aquarius, became the
overall umbrella operation controlling all these projects. Project
Aquarius was funded by CIA confidential funds (non-appropriated).
The Project assumed full responsibility for investigation and
intelligence of UFOs/IACs in December 1969 after Project
Grudge/Blue Book was closed. The purpose of Project Aquarius was to
collect all scientific, technological, medical and intelligence
information from UFO/IAC sightings and contacts with alien
lifeforms. This orderly file of collected information has been used
to advance the United States' Space Program and provided the data
needed to develop present stealth technology.

......
end of correction.

--
ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!crfm!murrayb
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: [e-mail] (Murray Bott)
Date: 19 Jul 92 10:16:28 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Murray Bott)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 41

 In Brad Steigers book "Mysteries of Time and Space" (Sphere Books,paperback
edition,published 1977 page 193.) Steiger writes

> In 1956 Gray Barker told the Bender story-minus the
>detailed revalations the men in black (MIB) had given
>Bender about the UFO enigma__in They Knew Too Much
>About Flying Saucers. In the same volume he related that
>Edgar R Jarrold, organiser of the Australian Flying Saucer
> Bureau, Harold H Fulton, head of Civilian Saucer Inves-
>tigation of New Zealand, and Ufologist John H Stuart,
>also a New Zealander,had received visits from
>mysterious strangers in black and had subsequently dis-
>banded thei organisations and their research

 This paragraph contains some distortions and basic error of facts.The book
"The Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers" by Gray Barker does contain some
material which has helped to artifically create a Mystery
 Certainly with regards to Harold H Fulton he did not ever receive any visit
by strangers in black, nor did he ever receive any threats to close or cease
his research
 He continued his research until his death in 1986 and was New Zealand
Director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) from 1973 until this time
 Fortunately a large portion of his files survive and are now in my
possesion

 As far as New Zealander John Stuart is concerned,I have not ever established
contact with him (He appeares to have passed away in very recent years) I do
have on file his photostat copies of his correspondance with Grey Barker
(received from another source)

 In light of the ongoing discussion on this by some (on this Net and perhaps
elsewhere) I will be checking some background in other areas and may at some
time in the future post an article on this net (if neccassary) although this
is likely to be some weeks or even months away

Regards

--
Domain : [e-mail]
Voice  : 64-9-6315825
Snail  : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7376 sci.skeptic:27600
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 06:14:18 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

Dear Thad: Well it seems you people are having a good time pasting
the gifs.  More power to you.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Unanswered Question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 06:24:16 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Barry and Bad Bull Bill:  Now if that isn't a strange conbination
then I've never heard one. Your discussion of ways to cook Greys is
very funny but I make it a rule not to make fun of people who are
smarter than I am.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.paranormal:5437 talk.religion.newage:10833 alt.alien.visitors:7378
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: To ed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 06:32:16 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Janet: I doubt if anything is wrong in the fair and gay state
of Calif. I receive and send to you by E-mail and your post is coming
through just fine. I might suggest that you post E-mail through a
mutual friend to you friend.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 06:54:39 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear People: If a person believes the Condon Report I truely feel
sorry for that person. We spent about 55,000 dollars on that report
to get information on the space people when we have recovered live
space people  (the good type) from crashes. We subjest them to
questioning then when they don't answer us to give us their advanced
technology we put them in liquid nitrogen for extended periods of
time. Every so often we unthaw them and ask them some more questions.
If they don't give us the information we want then we refreeze them
again. It reminds me of the old song God's Going To Get You For That.
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (look better in the shade...)
Message-ID: <cwcmzt#[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 14:24:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.cwcmzt#.payner
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (The Independents - SUNY Buffalo) writes:
>
>    Well I've heard of the hot penny trick but that would still
>leave the mystery of what that charred lump of flesh is at my door
>after they melt me down.

It's all so clear now. This explains spontaneous human combustion.
Remember folks, do not let the greys escape once you capture them,
and never, never let them talk to the MIB.

[...]


Rich

[e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: en In Black (look better in the shade...)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 14:33:48 GMT
Lines: 5

Speaking as an artsy fartsy person, I must say that there is a significant
difference between a MIB and an art student. Please refrain from bashing
anyone in black who does not pose an immediate threat to your well being.
Promise me you will and I promise not to beat up any mormal looking people
I see unless I have a good reason.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men in Black
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 15:22:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1xcmnpb.sheaffer
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 41

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Murray Bott) writes:
>> In 1956 Gray Barker told the Bender story-minus the
>>detailed revalations the men in black (MIB) had given
>>Bender about the UFO enigma__in They Knew Too Much
>>About Flying Saucers. In the same volume he related that
>>Edgar R Jarrold, organiser of the Australian Flying Saucer
>> Bureau, Harold H Fulton, head of Civilian Saucer Inves-
>>tigation of New Zealand, and Ufologist John H Stuart,
>>also a New Zealander,had received visits from
>>mysterious strangers in black and had subsequently dis-
>>banded thei organisations and their research
>
> This paragraph contains some distortions and basic error of facts.The book
>"The Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers" by Gray Barker does contain some
>material which has helped to artifically create a Mystery
> Certainly with regards to Harold H Fulton he did not ever receive any visit
>by strangers in black, nor did he ever receive any threats to close or cease
>his research

Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about
everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he
would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????".

James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today,
was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to have
been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the
whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles
and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!"


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!ukma!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!ztsindi
From: [e-mail] (The Independents - SUNY Buffalo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 18:49:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University at Buffalo
Lines: 19
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu


    I'm sorry. In my rather confrontational approach to dealing
with the MIBs(alien flavor) I failed to specify that some HUMAN men
like to where all black all the time. I now offer this disclaimer:
Check BEFORE You Zap! If your at home listening to the latest
New Music and getting ready to go out to that remote sight fifty
miles from the City where you saw those UFOs last week and you
here an ominous knocking and you look thru the peephole and see
two men in black THINK BEFORE YOU ZAP THEM! It could just be
the 'Blues Brothers'! Or members of some heinious earthly cult
come to take you away...er, well zap them too then. If they
ask you to hold a penny in your hand though...say, 'why sure, let
me reach inside my jacket pocket here and..' BZZZZZZZT!
    As a further suggestion for the forwarding of Public Safety
I would humbly suggest that any HUMAN men that enjoy wearing all
black have a small tag put in the brim of the hat or pinned to
the lapel that reads, 'I AM NOT AN ALIEN'. As a matter of fact
that would make a good T-shirt saying, doncha think?
                            -Joe
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from a
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 17:14:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: University of Scranton, Scranton, PA
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: prijat.cs.uofs.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering) writes:
|>
|> Perhaps you mean *out of _body_* experiences. Out of _mind_ experiences
|> are what you get from reading sci.space.
|>
|> And what you need in order to vote Libertarian.
|>

That's right, instead "normal" people can vote Democrat or Republican and
then just sit back and wait for the country to file Chapter 11.

bill

--

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     [e-mail]   |  This space would be left intentionally blank
     [e-mail]    |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7385 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1952
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 18:43:58 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 42

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
>Everyone forgets that: as the ship goes faster, the ship will also get heavier.
>Thus requiring that much more energy.
>
>Einstein theories.

First of all, the ship does not get "heavier;" its mass increases.
Second, this effect is only observed from a non-accelerating reference frame.
If you are in the same reference frame as the ship (moving and accelerating
at the same rate - that is, at rest with respect to one another)
then you will not see an increase in mass.  If you travel to a distant
destination at relativisitic velocities, you will arrive at your
destination just as quickly as if there was no relativistic effects,
in your own time frame.  However, once you arrive you will discover
that much more time has passed in the universe than has passed for
yourself.

So the universe sees you get continually more massive, and therefore unable
to accelerate beyond the C-limit.  But you see no difficulty in accelerating
as fast as you wanted to (apparently).  It's just that the universe runs at
a much faster rate while you are doing it.  The end result in your reference
frame is that you arrive after experiencing the same length of time in flight
as you would have experienced had you been traveling faster than light.  This
is explained by foreshortening - you didn't really go faster than light - your
destination just got bent closer.   ;^)

The one difficulty with traveling at relativistic speeds that I never see
anyone discussing (perhaps because it is such a big problem) is the fact
that anyone traveling at relativistic speeds is going to die instantly of
heavy-partical radiation (near-light-speed hydrogen atoms from space that
you are zooming through the middle of).  Not to mention any actual macro-
objects that might be in your path.  If you are traveling light years, then
you have to deal with a volume of space equal to the cross-section of your
spacecraft times the light-years of distance you are crossing.  What is the
probability that there is a partical weighing one gram or more inside of a
volume that large?  What would be the effect of a one gram pebble striking
your craft while traveling at 0.9 C?  BOOM!    ;^)
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10836 alt.alien.visitors:7386 sci.skeptic:27617
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!news.byu.edu!eff!iWarp.intel.com|ssd.intel.com!jerryg
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Gaiser)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: alaska
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 19:55:34 GMT
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Brick: It's just my opinion but you appear to be the type of

<Garble deleted>

Who is this person, and do the people at the home know he has access to
a terminal? ;-)
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7387 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1954
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!franl
From: [e-mail] (Fran Litterio)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Mon, 20 Jul 1992 18:43:58 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: draco
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 21:20:56 GMT
Lines: 19

[e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:

> So the universe sees you get continually more massive, and therefore unable
> to accelerate beyond the C-limit.  But you see no difficulty in accelerating
> as fast as you wanted to (apparently).  It's just that the universe runs at
> a much faster rate while you are doing it.  The end result in your reference
> frame is that you arrive after experiencing the same length of time in flight
> as you would have experienced had you been traveling faster than light.  This
> is explained by foreshortening - you didn't really go faster than light - your
> destination just got bent closer.   ;^)

Why does the universe appear to the observer (moving at a relativisic
speed) to run "at a much faster rate" if it also is foreshortened so
that "your destination just got bent closer"?  These two observations
seem contradictory to me.
--
[e-mail]   || Fran Litterio
uunet!centerline!franl || CenterLine Software R&D
617-498-3255           || 10 Fawcett St, Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!triton.unm.edu!swells
From: [e-mail] (Ed Gruberman)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 19:49:02 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Summary: ok, i'm game
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Lines: 31

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (System Administrator) writes:
>[e-mail] writes:
>
>> I attempted to make
>> contact with her at 1,400 miles away. It was a success. So Brick get
>> me someone who is open minded and probubly an known telepath and we'll
>> have your experiment.  John Winston.
>
>
>Ok - so you have convinced me that you *can* send telepathic messages.
>That's an excellent start. Now, can you control the *content* of such
>messages?
>
>=Doug

is it enough for me to tell you i have an open mind or do you have to
feel it?  i wanna try.  what do i have to do, john?  let's set an
appointment.  no, really.  i mean it.

july 22 at 11pm MST ok?  why don't you try to both appear to me in
astral form and also give me a message/mental picture of what you look
like, and i will write down what ever impressions i get and post
them, or email them.  you can s-mail me a photo of you postmarked
on the 21st and we can double check.

how about it?

shannon "my name isn't really ed" wells

but i AM a master of Ti Kwon Leep!
>
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 20:56:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jeff Epler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 35
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In a previous article, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) says:

>
>The one difficulty with traveling at relativistic speeds that I never see
>anyone discussing (perhaps because it is such a big problem) is the fact
>that anyone traveling at relativistic speeds is going to die instantly of
>heavy-partical radiation (near-light-speed hydrogen atoms from space that
>you are zooming through the middle of).  Not to mention any actual macro-
>objects that might be in your path.  If you are traveling light years, then
>you have to deal with a volume of space equal to the cross-section of your
>spacecraft times the light-years of distance you are crossing.  What is the
>probability that there is a partical weighing one gram or more inside of a
>volume that large?  What would be the effect of a one gram pebble striking
>your craft while traveling at 0.9 C?  BOOM!    ;^)

That's the neat thing about the ramjet that one can read of in the Known
Space short stories.  It scoops up those nasties for you, and uses 'em
for fuel...

Say, (this is alt.alien.visitors :) Has this technology been captured
from aliens (of tau ceti) that the CIA has had inside the pentagon for
73 years?
>--
>            _.
>--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
>  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
>             V
>

--
|Jeff Epler               Additions Welcome                ;-) >{8-) |
| :) (=( =-] (-= Celebrating the variety of faces =-> :^) {-= |-) (: |
|                                                   Lincoln, Nebraska|
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!wang!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Immortality of Being and Contact -Pleiadians 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 11:21:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>   <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Lines: 12

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Dear Everbody: I was just over at Don Showen's house a couple of
>days ago and you people are really making him mad

I hope he doesn't send any elementals to wake me up - they're illegal
in my building.
--
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     Today, THREE WINOS from DETROIT sold me a framed photo of
 |warren@      TAB HUNTER before his MAKEOVER!
/ nysernet.org
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10843 alt.alien.visitors:7391 sci.skeptic:27624
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:19:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Jerry: I am a person just like you. I post to the Net from a
computer in my home.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10845 alt.alien.visitors:7392 sci.skeptic:27625
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:29:05 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 10

Dear Shannon: You appear to be very excited over all of this. The first
thing you need to do is relax.  You may say you want to do this but it
is my opinion that you don't want to have me  be able to accomplish this
act.  I will attempt to do what you say. You asked for it and you will
probubly get exactly what you are expecting which will be nothing.
I have been contacted by two people who I think can fill the bill.
Ones name starts with the letter J. and she has a friend that is good
in the practice of astral projection.  The others is a person with the
first name that starts with the letter G. Let the games begin.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10846 alt.alien.visitors:7393 sci.skeptic:27626
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:33:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 5

Dear Doug: You ask if I can control the messages that are sent. In the
past the experimenter just wanted to make contact so I just looked
around and observed the one I went to see.  This lady later just sent
me a message of love and  good will.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!tom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Sullivan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Lawn circles?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 15:27:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <#5=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Administration)
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Lines: 31
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Fri, 17 Jul 92 19:09:22 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 17 Jul 92 19:09:22 GMT, [e-mail] (Ed Gruberman) said:

Ed> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 1992 19:40:15 GMT, [e-mail] (Kevlar) said:
>> Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov
>
>
>>      The other day while mowing my backyard I noticed a very strange
>> phenomenon, I had to stop cutting the grass in order to move the kids'
>> turtle sandbox, while I bent down to move this item I noticed several
>> perfectly round (about 4ft dia) patches of browned grass in varying shades
>> from brown to green at different locations in the lawn! I moved the sandbox
>> to a freshly mowed portion of the lawn and continued my yard duties. Are
>> these "Lawn circles" some type of landing spot from alien spacecraft?
>> Do these "circles" indicate the presence of extraterrestrial beings
>> here on earth? Has anyone else had a similar encounter? Are there
>> "Grays" nesting near my home?
>>
>
>There's a type of lawn disease (a fungus, I believe, but I'd need to
>look it up) that kills grass in circles.  That's probably what your
>circles are caused by....Tom

Ed> Hello, Tom?  I think Kevin is making a _joke_.  Notice the bit about
Ed> the _round_ sand box?

Yeah, someone else also pointed this out to me.  That'll teach me to
read this newsgroup late at night!  I got round spots on MY lawn last
year (lawn disease), and even though I realized he was joking about
"Lawn circles" I thought he was stating fact about getting circles
(sans sandbox's) on his lawn.  Oh well....Tom
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!tom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Sullivan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 16:32:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Administration)
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Lines: 2
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 19 Jul 92 01:56:01 GMT

The bottom of this posting got cut off.  Mike, can you post the
remaining info?...Tom
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10847 alt.alien.visitors:7396 sci.skeptic:27629
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria
From: [e-mail] (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 20 Jul 1992 22:58:37 GMT
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 20 Jul 92 22:33:02 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

   Dear Doug: You ask if I can control the messages that are sent. In the
   past the experimenter just wanted to make contact so I just looked
   around and observed the one I went to see.  This lady later just sent
   me a message of love and  good will.

Ah, one of those astral chat lines: just think
1-aleph-null-900-love-you!  Where does one beam if one wants the hard
stuff?

-30-
Bob

``Gonna meet you on the astral plane''
    -- Jonathan Richmond
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10848 alt.alien.visitors:7397 sci.skeptic:27633
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!gumby!kzoo!k044477
From: [e-mail] (Jamie R. McCarthy)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kalamazoo College
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 23:33:07 GMT
Lines: 9

[e-mail] writes:
>Dear Shannon: ...
>I will attempt to do what you say. You asked for it and you will
>probubly get exactly what you are expecting which will be nothing.

Why will that not surprise me?
--
 Jamie McCarthy      Internet: [e-mail]      AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 I suppose ya don't think I was run over by a streetcar!
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7398 sci.skeptic:27635
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News administrator)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 23:18:51 GMT
Lines: 29

[e-mail] (Rogue Agent) writes:
: In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
: >Dear Max: M------- stands for morphodite.
:
:     Sure you don't mean hermaphrodite?  Don't have a dictionary handy,
: but I've never heard of a 'morphodite'.  Hmm - just grepped through
: /usr/dict/words, it's not there.  But then neither is 'hermaphrodite' :-).
:

Actually, morphodite is an explosive manufactured from opiate
alkaloids.  A couple grams is enough to blow your hand off -- but it
doesn't hurt at all!

Yikes, is this Winston guy for real?  I've been away from the net from
a couple weeks, and reading the last 60 articles in this thread in a
single sitting has exceeded my gullibility threshold.

(I've got this program that picks a Zippy the Pinhead quite at random
every hour and changes my .Sig file.  It's absolutely supernatural
they way it often seem relavent to the topic being discussed.)

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  On the other hand, life
Rosemount Inc.                                |can be an endless parade of
                                              |TRANSSEXUAL QUILTING BEES
[e-mail]                 |aboard a cruise ship to
                                              |DISNEYWORLD if only we let
                                              |it!!

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7399 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1958
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!convex!swarren
From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (news access account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 00:27:55 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 62

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fran Litterio) writes:
>[e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>
>> So the universe sees you get continually more massive, and therefore unable
>> to accelerate beyond the C-limit.  But you see no difficulty in accelerating
>> as fast as you wanted to (apparently).  It's just that the universe runs at
>> a much faster rate while you are doing it.  The end result in your reference
>> frame is that you arrive after experiencing the same length of time in flight
>> as you would have experienced had you been traveling faster than light.  This
>> is explained by foreshortening - you didn't really go faster than light - your
>> destination just got bent closer.   ;^)
>
>Why does the universe appear to the observer (moving at a relativisic
>speed) to run "at a much faster rate" if it also is foreshortened so
>that "your destination just got bent closer"?  These two observations
>seem contradictory to me.

Nope.  The fact is that nothing can travel faster than light, in any reference
frame.  If it wasn't for the foreshortening effect, you would literally see
the universe passing by faster than the speed of light.  This is because in
your reference frame (the frame that moves with the ship) you will travel a
distance of, say, 1 light year in 0.5 of your years.  Why?  Because your time
has slowed down.  An observer in the universe reference frame sees your time
slow down, so he knows you are traveling slower than the speed of light.  But
in your accelerated (time-slowed) frame you will cover the light year in only
one-half of a year.

It is actually impossible to travel a light year in only one-half of a year,
because you would be observing yourself traveling faster than the speed of
light (you could measure objects passing by, and determine their velocities
from their lengths).  Foreshortening prevents you from observing this
impossible behavior.  This occurs *because* the universe is running faster,
not in opposition to it.

What you would observe is that indeed, you traveled the distance in half a
year, but when you measured the distance you discovered that it has shrunk,
and is actually less than 0.5 light years.  You could literally measure the
foreshortening effect my marking off ship-lengths on a stationary pole that
stretches the length of the light year.  If you mark the pole (with a spray-
gun of some sort) every time a shiplength of pole passes by and count the
marks, you will find that there are less than half as many ship-lengths in the
pole as you thought there were.

The time shrinkage allows you to get to your destination in the same
subjective time (in the ship's frame of reference) as if there were no
relativistic effects at all, without violating the special theory of
relativity in the reference frame of the universe.  Foreshortening allows this
to happen without violating the theory in the reference frame of the ship.

Look at it this way: from the reference frame of the universe, you never reach
C because the more you accelerate, the more massive you become.  From your
accelerated frame, you never reach C because the more you accelerate, the
shorter the distance becomes that you are trying to travel.  If you try to
double your velocity, what happens instead is that your destination becomes
twice as close to you.  The rocket propellant that you thought was leaving
your ship at 1 km/sec is only 0.5 km behind you after 1 second.

--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch
From: [e-mail] (Ray Rosch)
Subject: WIR's [Was MIB]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 03:17:43 GMT
Lines: 7


Has anyone been followed by WIR's [Women in Red]? Were you wearing Obsession
or Old Spice?

****
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer
****
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7401 talk.bizarre:66693
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 16:43:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster
Lines: 8

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Jason: I beg your pardon. I said you had a furtile mind I meant
> a fertile mind.
> John Winston.

My nomination for post of the week.

Jason
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!mirama.cec.edu.au!bevans
From: [e-mail] (Brian Evans)
Subject: STS UFO FOOTAGE - Australian TV
Organization: Mirama Timesharing, Melbourne Australia
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 01:38:01 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: STS UFO australian
Lines: 18

Hi,

Last night in Australia I was getting my weekly fix of Hard Copy when
they decided to preview next weeks stories. Guess what, they
have decided to show the NASA FOOTAGE on Australian TV with a story from
the USA.

Last night they showed some of the footage a couple of times over.

I agree that you can definately see something move off at great speed.

The Hard Copy UFO REPORT will be screen in Australia on July 23rd on
Network 10.

regards,

Brian

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7403 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1959
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!jeeves.waterloo.edu!srnwhite
From: [e-mail] (Shannon White)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 04:06:13 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Fran Litterio) writes:
> [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>
> > So the universe sees you get continually more massive, and therefore unable
> > to accelerate beyond the C-limit.  But you see no difficulty in accelerating
> > as fast as you wanted to (apparently).  It's just that the universe runs at
> > a much faster rate while you are doing it.  The end result in your reference
> > frame is that you arrive after experiencing the same length of time in flight
> > as you would have experienced had you been traveling faster than light.  This
> > is explained by foreshortening - you didn't really go faster than light - your
> > destination just got bent closer.   ;^)
>
> Why does the universe appear to the observer (moving at a relativisic
> speed) to run "at a much faster rate" if it also is foreshortened so
> that "your destination just got bent closer"?  These two observations
> seem contradictory to me.
> --
> [e-mail]   || Fran Litterio
> uunet!centerline!franl || CenterLine Software R&D
> 617-498-3255           || 10 Fawcett St, Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110

This may or may not help, but I think the most important point to remember
about special relativity is that, no matter what frame of reference you are in,
the speed of light is always the same.  An observer in another frame of
reference may see you approaching the speed of light, but in your frame
light will be travelling at c.  Using this one fact, all properties of
special relativity can be derived.

Another thing to remember about near-light speed (sic) travel, oncoming light
will be blue-shifted so that normal yellow star light will become dangerous
radiation.  Thus the closer you approach light speed in the frame of reference
of a stationary star, the more dangerous that star's light becomes to you.

Shannon White
[e-mail]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7404 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1960
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!whale.cps.msu.edu!wilbur
From: [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 04:06:27 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Wilbur) writes:
|> >Everyone forgets that: as the ship goes faster, the ship will also get heavier.
|> >Thus requiring that much more energy.
|> >
|> >Einstein theories.
|>
|> First of all, the ship does not get "heavier;" its mass increases.

That's what I get for using loose terminology...


|> Second, this effect is only observed from a non-accelerating reference frame.
|> If you are in the same reference frame as the ship (moving and accelerating

I thought it was clear that I was talking about a relativistic equation.

|> at the same rate - that is, at rest with respect to one another)
|> then you will not see an increase in mass.  If you travel to a distant

[ STUFF DELETED]

|> your craft while traveling at 0.9 C?  BOOM!    ;^)
|> --
|>             _.
|> --Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
|>   Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
|>              V




BRICK
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7405 alt.conspiracy:16996
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!panix!jfl
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Lipton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Fuck the CIA
Keywords: Stollman
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 21:33:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>[e-mail] (martin frederic melhus) writes:
>
>> Gary -
>>
>>      Here's a little ditty I think you might need to remember:
>>
>>      A prozac a day keeps the voices away.
>>
>>      (I don't advocate prozac; it just fits the rhyme scheme.
>>       So, scientologists, please keep your flames to yourselves.)
>>
>> --

    Actually, Prozac is an antidepressant, not an antipsychotic,
so it is unlikely to ameliorate distressing auditory hallucinations.
<Of course, it may make them seem less distressing...>

 - Jeff



--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeffrey F. Lipton, M.D.                |   (212)-982-1219 (home)          |
| 353 E. 17th, #19-E  NY, NY 10003       |"Disobedience was Man's First     |
+----------------------------------------------- Virtue" (Oscar Wilde) -----+
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 06:08:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

That is I'm still trying.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wsu-cs!uts.cc.wayne.edu!cms.cc.wayne.edu!EIVERSO
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: WIR's [Was MIB]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:44:19 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Ray Rosch) writes:

>Has anyone been followed by WIR's [Women in Red]? Were you wearing Obsession
>or Old Spice?

They have this trick where they ask you to hold a twenty dollar bill in
your hand. Then they take the money and hold it in their hand. I'm not sure
what happens next but some men apparently undergo bizzare changes, some
leaving piles of sticky goo on the ground.

Enough comedy...

You mean LIRs (Ladies in Red)?
I'd suggest you watch the movie: The Thin Blue Line, wherein we learn
that the famous LIR was actually a LIO (Lady in Orange).

Just my $0.01

--E
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.space:32126 sci.astro:19326 alt.alien.visitors:7408 alt.paranormal:5450
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From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Phobos2-probe UFO pic-pro and contra
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:02:03 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 120

Hi,
I just have posted the mysterious phobos2-probe UFO-pic  as a GIF-pic
called phobufo.gif  in the newsgroup:
alt.binaries.pictures.misc

I was asked in private email to do so, cause many people don't yet
have any JPEG viewers !

Okay, but now the Pro and Contra:

I enclose here to emails, which say it is only a particle hit or a
CCD-chip error.

Can anybody verify this ?

Here comes the email I received:


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 18:25:33 HST
From: [e-mail] (Kimo Kanaka De'ane)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: phobufo.jpg, part 1/1 Phobos2-probe-UFO-pic
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Cc:
Status: RO

    Aloha.
    As an infrared astronomer, I am certain that the streak in this
picture is a bad column from the infrared array. Those chips are notorious
for having rows of dead pixels. I saw shapes like this one on both the
array at the University of Wyoming IR Observatory and here at UH, though
ours is a cutting-edge device, and has slightly better cosmetics. I put
no faith whatsoever in the UFO idea.
    Again, I've used these devices extensively, and my job is determining
what kind of structure one can believable extract from imaging electronics.
This is just an instrumental flaw.

    N.B. CCDs are used in the Optical bandpass, roughly the same light
visible with the eye. IR-arrays are the same *basic* structure, with important
differences in detail, and are about 5-8 years behind CCDs in terms of size
and performance. It's a hard waveband to work in, but one chock full of
scientific merit.

    Clear skies,
        Kimo


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 19:13:32 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Tarl Neustaedter)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: Stefan Hartmann's message of Mon, 20 Jul 92 12:32:43 MEST <[e-mail]>
Subject: phobufo.jpg, part 1/1 Phobos2-probe-UFO-pic
Status: RO

> Hmm,
> interesting idea, but tell me, won't there be visible only a little
> white pixel and not this long big line ?

If you happen to get a charged particle hitting the edge of the detector
parallel to the plane, it will travel through a number of cells, triggering
them. Under some conditions, the cascade of secondary particles can make the
line much wider than a single pixel.

> What about all the other photos that were taken ? Why are over there
> no white lines or spots ?

The effect is temporary, so you won't get the same damage in all images.
If you question is why none of the other pictures show any damage, there
are two answers:
   a) Do you have all of the raw data for all the images? Knowing how
      glavkosmos works (even post-perestroika), you don't. It's common
      practice to process images removing defects before you release
      them, and to simply discard images that are too badly damaged.
   b) Have you heard of the term "random"?

> Would a CCD chip camera for space mission not made safe for this
> charged particle hits ? If not, You would see every time only white
> spots !

No.
  a) It takes miles of insulation to defend against relativistic charged
     particles. There is no way to make a CCD "safe" against cosmic rays.
  b) They aren't common enough to zap all your images. Most images won't
     have any cosmic ray hits, and those that do will probably be at a
     sharper angle than this, and thus a smaller hit.
  c) My comment about cosmic rays was simply one of the defects that could
     be the cause; I'd have to have the raw data and specifications on the
     imaging and transmission hardware before I could comment on the likely
     candidates.

I've observed this discussion before, and I don't care to carry it on.
It is the provenance of conspiracy theorists and ufo true-believers, not
anyone who has ever worked with CCDs or space equipment. The only reason
I commented is because after posting it to sci.astro, you posted it to an
erotica group, which was inappropriate.

> Rethink about it !

Give me a break.
    Tarl



So, what do You all say about this ?

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.space:32140 sci.astro:19335 alt.alien.visitors:7409 alt.paranormal:5453
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary
From: [e-mail] (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: Phobos2-probe UFO pic-pro and contra
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:44:39 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: ufo, ccd, cosmic rays
Lines: 42

Everything stated in the original post is a common occurence even in
ground based CCDs.  Especially the cosmic ray hits, which become quite
frequent on long esposures, like those used for extragalactic objects.
On observing runs I've been on I've seen CR hits so energetic they
saturate an entire column and possibly an adjacent one and leave residual
charge on subsequent read-outs of the chip (somewhat like an after image
that people get when they look at something very bright.)  Our method of
dealing with cosmic ray hits is to take at least three short exposures
in place of the one long one and then median them.  This works quite
well since even small chips are 512 by 512 (columns by pixels) so the
chance of having even the same column hit is very small especially
if you make your exposure time shorter.

On the one of the chips at our observatory (Capilla Peak, in the Manzanos
mtns in NM) we saw what we thought to be a comet.  We searched for the
object on subsequent nights, since we need at least 3 observations
to really nail down the orbit et cetera.  We could not locate the object.
Then the 'object' appeared again at a far removed point in the sky.
A quick back of the envelope calculation show that if the 'comet'
was even at a very close range then its velocity was an order of
magnitude above solar system escape velicity and few times above
galactic escape velocity.  The culprit was a fairly large defect on the
chip.

I think this story serves to show that defects and CR hits can produce
a wide variety of effects on CCDs.  We could have just as easily said
that the effect was and exhaust plume of a spaceship, but when we found
out chip was acting silly the end result was the same:  we gotta buy
a new chip.

See ya,

Ithlial


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.



Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Abduction case
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:25:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brick Wilbur) writes:
>I talked to a leading researcher two weeks ago, and he informed me about the
>abduction case that happened in New York.  Someone posted that case earlier.
>
>The incident was witnessed by all those people who were on the Brooklyn Bridge,
>and by the people who were below (on the street ).
>
>The VERY high ranking official was not disclosed to me.  I was told, however, that
>the official's Secret Service agents witnessed these happenings.  It was these
>agents that contacted Bud Hopkins.
>
>The incident happened in 1989, and this official has not made up his mind yet
>as to whether he will disclose what he witnessed.
>
>My source personally knows just about every UFO researcher, and was one of the
>key people in organizing the conference at MIT a month ago.
>
>He an about 7 other researchers have been specifically doing MASSIVE research
>on the Roswel crash.  They have uncovered many things that have never been
>uncovered before.

   Talk is cheap.   But frankly we've been hearing this kind of stuff
   for decades now and nobody has ever provided any tangible evidence.

   How would Mr. Wilbur like it if I claimed that I have secret information
   that absolutely proves that he's making this all up due to some basic
   mental instability and that I've talked to doctors and other specialists
   who can confirm his condition, but at the moment choose not to do so?

   I say put up or shut up.


---peter


Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.space:32147 sci.astro:19341 alt.alien.visitors:7411 alt.paranormal:5454
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!transfer!sw.stratus.com!tarl
From: [e-mail] (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Phobos2-probe UFO pic-pro and contra
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:19:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
> [someone else's quoted mail]
> [quoted mail from me, ending with:]
>
> I've observed this discussion before, and I don't care to carry it on.
> It is the provenance of conspiracy theorists and ufo true-believers, not
> anyone who has ever worked with CCDs or space equipment. The only reason
> I commented is because after posting it to sci.astro, you posted it to an
> erotica group, which was inappropriate.
>        Tarl
>
>
> So, what do You all say about this ?

a) You need to read the netiquette documents on news.newusers. Posting a
   piece of private email without permission of the sender, is considered
   at best impolite and at worst of dubious legality.
b) My email clearly stated that I did not care to get involved in the
   discussion, the only reason I commented is that you had posted the
   picture to an inappropriate group. Your posting my email under these
   conditions is flat offensive.
c) Kindly keep ufo discussions off of the sci. groups and erotica groups.
   You have your forum on alt.alien-visitors and alt.paranormal, keep to
   them.
--
         Tarl Neustaedter    [e-mail]
         Marlboro, Mass.    Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:38:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Citro III) writes:
>
>maybe it all boils down to I think therefore I am.

   I guess that means that John Winston *isn't* .


---peter

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7413 sci.skeptic:27690
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!ukma!widener!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Jul 92 06:21:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 22

[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
> this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is
> a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
> in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his
> books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
> write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
> body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
> for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
> pass on anyway.
> John Winston.

        WAS, mind you. Lobsang Rampa died not too long ago.

        And if you actually believe his claims, well, good luck to you. Just
don't expect me to.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:47:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 37

[e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293) writes:

> To coincide with the MUFON Conference last weekend in Alberquerque
> Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner's new book "Crash at Corona" was
> released. This week Stan is doing a lecture tour around New Mexico.
>
> At the MUFON Press Conference at Alberquerque there was a heated
> exchange of views between Kevin Randle, representing a local Roswell
> paper (also author with Don Schmitt of Crash at Roswell) and Stan.
        I'm not surprised. Given that there are three versions of the Roswell
crash, feuds are bound to happen.

        Let's recap:

        Moore and Berlita originally claimed ONE rash near Roswell, and the
recovery of FOUR bodies.

        Randle and Schmittclaim ONE crash 150 miles west of Roswell, the
recovery of THREE bodies and one LIVE alien.

        Friedman claims TWO crashes, the first in Roswell with four corpses,
and the second at Randle
s location with three corpses and one live one.

        Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite of a)
near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his
two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash.

        When asked about this contradiction, Friedman merely replied,
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Well, whuppee. That's
certainly a solid answer.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill
Gates to run."
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10861 alt.alien.visitors:7415 alt.paranormal:5458
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Preparing For The Earth Changes.
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:58:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: Earth Changes
Lines: 72

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:

>Looking at how the planet has been changing in the last few decades,
>one can see many positive and negative things. Just 20 years or so
>ago, about the worst problem facing our schools was people chewing gum
>and cutting in line. Now we have teen pregnancies, suicides, drug
>dealers, psychos of all kinds

  There have ALWAYS been suicides, drug dealers, teen pregnancies,
  and psychos of all kinds.   What planet did you come from (oops:
  inadvertent support for UFO fans).   What do you call Hitler or
  Vlad the Impaler?  What do you call the Opium Wars?  Crack a
  history book, fer crissake!


>to help the environment in a way unsurpassed before. Not long ago, the
>majority of Americans were immersed in a life of materialism, but
>after the revolutionary changes in the 1960's and the spread of the
>New Age movement in the late 1980's, many now realize a spiritual side
>to life.

  Gee there's a new idea: religion.   What do you call Islam, Buddhism,
  and Christianity?  Go back further and see Hinduism, Zoroastrianism,
  Judaism, etc.   Go forward and see all the spiritualist and transcenden-
  talist movements of the 19th century.  Walter D. Pullen is indeed one
  ignorant poster.



>The consensus seems to be that such a gateway is rapidly approaching,
>due to reasons presented earlier. There is talk of things such as a
>new era, the Aquarian Age, Earth entering the "fourth dimension", 1000
>years of Peace, and so on.

  Read some history, you moron!   Apocalyptic images, ideas, and visions
  have been popular for centuries!   Look at the Book of the Revelation
  which was written 1900 years ago and was widely believed to be referring
  to events contemporary to that time.  Go back further and look at Isaiah
  or look at other images and expectations in our own history.  In 1033 a
  group of European prophets proclaimed the imminent end of the world.
  William Miller proclaimed April 3, 1843 as the Judgement Day.  In 1910
  it was widely believed the world would be destroyed by Halley's comet.
  A group of Hindu astrologers proclaimed February 1962 as the end of
  the world.


>It is important for one not to get worried about whether they are
>going on or staying behind.

  How the hell are we supposed to sell them any books if they don't get
  worried?!


>There is only one thing that will determine how the Earth Changes will
>affect one: *vibration*.

  Does this mean I shouldn't get that front-end alignment I've had
  scheduled?




>A confession: It is possible that nothing significant at all will
>happen

  I guess the Thorazine's finally starting to kick in, huh Walt?



---peter


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj
From: [e-mail] (Alan Jones,AMJ1,)
Subject: Phoenix Project
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:29:22 GMT
Lines: 56


FYI - I sent away for the free list of reports made by the Phoenix
Project.  The list is pretty small so I thought I'd post it.  Please
note that I am not promoting the selling of these reports.



  Advent Publishing Company
  P.O. Box 3748
  Carson City, NV  89702

  -------------------------------------------------------------------

  THE PHOENIX PROJECT REPORTS

    The Dulce Report  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $10.00
      No. 920527, with Exhibits

    The Ultimate Secret . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $12.50
      The Majority Agency for Joint Intelligence (MAJI)
      The Secret War Against The Aliens
      Star Wars (SDI) Exposed
      No. 920505, with Exhibits

    K-2 -- A Secret California Alien Base . . . . . . . . . . $12.50
      No. 920621, with Exhibits

    K-2 -- K-2 Radio Transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  $5.00
      Cassette Tape (Running Time = 58:20)


  The following reports should be available August 30, 1992

    K-2 Supplemental Report - The NASA Presence at Quincy . . $10.00
      No. 920820, with Exhibits

    The Area-51 Report  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $10.00
      The Joint U.S./Alien Research Base
      No. 920815, with Exhibits

    The "Ice Caves" Report  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $12.50
      The Los Alamos U.S./Alien Base
      No. 920830, with Exhibits


  When ordering please specify quantity and report title.  Enclose check
  or money order in U.S. funds only, made payable to Advent Publishing
  Company.  Prices quoted include shipping and handling.  Allow two
  weeks for delivery.


---
sincerely,
Alan Jones  /  Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX  /  email=[e-mail]


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!hillman
From: [e-mail] (Dan Hillman)
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <s4dm![e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 19:07:20 GMT
Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>That is I'm still trying.
>John Winston.

Pity.

--
| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   [e-mail]
|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: The Unanswered Question
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:31:26 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Dear John...
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> Dear Barry and Bad Bull Bill:  Now if that isn't a strange conbination
> then I've never heard one. Your discussion of ways to cook Greys is
> very funny but I make it a rule not to make fun of people who are
> smarter than I am.
> John Winston.


Dear John: I didn't know th greys are people, so i thought i was
           allowed to make fun of them. actually they are very paranoid
       at this time, 'cause too amny people(humans)are finding out
        they taste like chicken.
       Anyway, i spoke on the vibrational voice transceiver to
           commander sashac of the interplanetary P----- and he said not
       to worry if Mr Wilson thinks i'm making fun of greys.

Over- barry--
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:54:28 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Well I give up. Nobody seems to know who Hassan B. Multu is. Can
someone  please help me out?
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: re  Caution for UFO investig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:02:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Peter: You made an interesting quote. It might be good to find
out all you can about those two words I AM.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:08:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

I don't think so Joe.  I'll have to admit sometimes not knowing
about a particular problem and not doing anything about it can
often be a good method of keeping you out of trouble.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: WIR's [Was MIB]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:13:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 3

Dear Rosch and EIVERSO: I do believe you two are making fun of my
posting.
John Winston.
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:  alt.alien.visitors.John_Winston
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:21:31 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 2

The word is vain.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10866 alt.alien.visitors:7424 sci.skeptic:27719
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:27:52 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 4

Dear Jamie: If I had of known or thought you were run over by a
street car I might have taken up a collection and may have sent you
some flowers, that is if I believed you and you had an open mind.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10867 alt.alien.visitors:7425 sci.skeptic:27720
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:35:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 6

Dear Bob: You don't get anywhere unless you heart is right.
John Winston.
Well is everbody ready for July 22, 1100 PM Milpitas, Calif. time?
I hope to take off then pick E. and go by and get J. then we may all
drop in on Shannon.  It will be an astral convoy.
John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10868 alt.alien.visitors:7426 sci.skeptic:27721
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:50:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

Dear Everybody: I'll put some information down that was sent to me by
the Antahkarana organization who started this collection. I'll cut out
part of the religious parts. ASHTAR COMMUNIQUE. I Ashtar, of the
Confederation of Planets of this local universe, greet you one and all
in the name of ------. We of the Councils would like to take this
opportunity to inform you of a project of cooperation between the
Intersteller Commands, the Hierarchy, and Antahkarana.  We have directed
those of Antahkarana to assist man on Earth in examining his own heart
and mind. This will entail the cooperation, the interlinking of energies
of the third and higher dimensions, extending to the Creator ---.
End of Part 1. John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10869 alt.alien.visitors:7427 sci.skeptic:27722
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 19:06:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

Part 2. We plan to cooperate in establishing this link in a technological,
pragmmatic, Twentieth-Century working relationship.  One way this
cooperation between dimensions can become a reality is for Earthman in the
majority, to invite us to land openly on your planet. To interfere in
the affairs of Man without an invitaion is in violation of interplanetary
law. We feel that physical evidence of our existence can pivot the
balance of mankind into RIGHT THINKING AND RIGHT ACTION. This unity can
then bring about a vibration high enough so that Mother Earth can progress
forward into the next stage of Her evolution. We have begun to establish
a networking community of cooperation among light workers across the globe
of Earth.  End of Part 2. John Winston.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10870 alt.alien.visitors:7428 sci.skeptic:27724
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 19:25:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 11

Part 3. The purpose is to combine energies so that the combined
light of all light workers will form an even larger concentric circle.
Through this interlinking they will be reaching a helping hand connecting
those of higher frequency to all Earth brothers.  In this way we hope
to alleviate the fear, the agony of Earth people as they attune themselves
to the incoming energies of that called by the prophet of old, "The
End Times." As these energies wash over the land of Earth, all will
receive or reject them as to the level of development they have
attained spiritually.  We hope, with the emphasis on unity, kto be of
assistance to those of Earth who are feeling the residue of tension,
anger, hurt, and dismay at the perceived chaos of their lives. --J.W.
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 02:02:45 EDT
Lines: 13

I wish to make it known that the sysop of this system is completely
innocent of tampering with my signon and I was wrong to accuse him of
such...However, SOMEONE did forge those letters that I supposedly wrote
from here, and other places as well...In a little while, I will be filing
my lawsuit in federal court, and I WILL be voicing my experiences in a
court of law...If you want to think I a nut, fine...But please don't try
to ruin my reputation by making others believe that I am writing totally
ludicrous notes on here...Thank You,
                        Gary Stollman

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!hillman
From: [e-mail] (Dan Hillman)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 03:47:39 GMT
Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Well is everbody ready for July 22, 1100 PM Milpitas, Calif. time?
>I hope to take off then pick E. and go by and get J. then we may all
>drop in on Shannon.  It will be an astral convoy.
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gosh, an astral *Smokey and the Bandit*! My engorged mantool is already
reaching for the stars!!!

Don't forget the platform shoes and the mood ring, John-boy. Four out
of five unwashed holy men stress the importance of 70s accouterments
when communicating with the dead.

--
| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   [e-mail]
|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 23:44:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 0

Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7432 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1970
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 73
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:17:39 GMT

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
> Nope.  The fact is that nothing can travel faster than light, in any reference
> frame.  If it wasn't for the foreshortening effect, you would literally see
> the universe passing by faster than the speed of light.

I disagree. One cannot see anything passing faster than the speed of light, but
that does not stop objects travelling faster than c.

The speed-of-light is the speed of that light transmitted or reflected by any
object. It is a constant, no matter what the speed of the object is -
whether it is stationary, moving at 100 mph or 186,000 mph (all relative to
the observer on Earth). Like watching a car - stopped or going.

BUT LIGHT SPEED IS INDEPENDENT from THE SPEED OF THE OBJECT.
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^                     ^^^^^^

If an object travels SLOWER than the speed of light it would be observed as
being `where it is'. BUT it is only NEAR where it is (the difference is so
little). It takes time for the light to travel to our eye, during which the
object has moved on. But this is not obvious at relative slow speeds such as
occur in everyday life (like catching a ball or watching a car). This is
"convenient" else we would be run over by a car that was not there at the
time. :-)

If an object travelled FASTER than the speed of light, it would not be observed
as being where it actually is. This would not be significant until it travelled
at much higher speeds than light. So what? Sometime after it stopped its image
would catch up with it. Thus the object would not appear to have exceeded the
speed of light, to the stationary observer (who is only observing the image).
Bad luck if the object is travelling straight at you. All that would be seen is
a black hole until well after it passed (or hit) you.

Compare this to the speed of sound. We can see an event such as a gunshot
before hearing it. The speed of the bullet is not effected by the observation.

To the observer aboard the object/craft, other objects around it would appear
to be the ones moving. Again they would not appear to be travelling at above
the speed of light but in fact they would not be where they appear to be.
Collisions would be unavoidable if navigation was based on sight. Computers
could adjust for known objects, but uncharted small particles would be
disastrous unless the craft was protected by a "forcefield", as they would hit
before they were seen. Using some means of detection other than light, it might
be possible to navigate ad-hoc at above-light speed. Is there any such method?
An expendable "pathfinder" might be possible - send another craft on the same
path slightly before your flight. The distance (time?) between the two flights
would be the reaction time of the second craft to navigational changes. I don't
think this will work. What if you ran into another pathfinder?

Inside the craft the observer would not notice any difference as all objects
would be travelling at close to the same speed, including the observer. However
movements needing timing, such as eye-hand coordination, would they be clumsy?

Looking out of the craft the observer would in fact be looking forward/back in
TIME. Looking to the rear while overtaking the light that had been reflected
from the Earth the observer would see into the past. Or would he see nothing -
a black hole? Looking forward you would see into the future. All these
observations are of course relative to the observer on earth.

This thought exercise has been fun, but the practicalities are another thing.
How does one get all those molecules to accelerate enormously at the same time.
This is necessary if the craft is to avoid either dragging its tail or
squashing its nose. Or what if the destination is no longer there - how would
you know until you were under way.

Personally I don't see the point of travelling at these speeds. We don't need
to send humans anywhere around the universe - we can build observers for us,
but they can only communicate at c or less, unless the message is "attached" to
an object travelling above the speed of light. Our biology is not designed for
it. The Earth is our only home for some time, I'm afraid.

Big Al


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!tsoft!spectrx!aaron
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Anderer - System)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: zeta reticuli?
Keywords: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:46:09 PDT
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS [phone] Silicon Valley, Ca
Lines: 21

I was talking to my mom about some of the stuff I've been reading in this
group, and I mentioned Zeta Reticuli.  She said that she heard that star system
had a super nova quite recently, actually one of the larger ones.  Could some
one fill me in?  I'd also have to wonder about propulsion from there, since
it is about 40 light years from us, since (according to my calculations,
correct me if I'm wrong, but all flames to /dev/null) 234,627,900,000,000miles
away from earth.  I understand that you would have to travel awful fast to get
here in a commuter fashion, but from what some people have told me, it takes a
pleidian ship 14 minutes to get here from there(don't quote me on this), if
that was true wouldn't the theory of folding space, wormholes, or hyperspace
be discovered or created, even fudged so we could understand how you can
go through space that fast without the g-force problems associated with
normal rocket accelleration.

And what about all of this columbus day 1992 thing?  anybody got any proof,
?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Anderer, System Operator                [e-mail]
SPECTROX SYSTEMS [phone]              szebra!spectrx!aaron

Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!goanna!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxkgre
From: [e-mail] (Geof Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: WIR's [Was MIB]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:38:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Lines: 26

[e-mail] writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Ray Rosch) writes:
>>Has anyone been followed by WIR's [Women in Red]? Were you wearing Obsession
>>or Old Spice?
>They have this trick where they ask you to hold a twenty dollar bill in
>your hand. Then they take the money and hold it in their hand. I'm not sure
>what happens next but some men apparently undergo bizzare changes, some
>leaving piles of sticky goo on the ground.
>Enough comedy...
>You mean LIRs (Ladies in Red)?
>I'd suggest you watch the movie: The Thin Blue Line, wherein we learn
>that the famous LIR was actually a LIO (Lady in Orange).

<<<* Hey I really dig the sense of humour that this group seems to be developing     "No maam...we're musicians"
     UFO's are *serious* business but you gotta laugh...least I do.

--
  ___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: [e-mail]  ||
|| Melbourne,Australia 3000   | Tel: [phone]             ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
||___________________________________________________________________||


Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:40:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 28


 >         From what I understand UFO cases from Belgium are unique.  This
 > is
 >         due to the recent government decision by that country to
 > disclose all
 >         infromation on UFO's.  Thus, there may well be just as many UFO
 > cases
 >         in neighboring countries, but they are unreported by witnesses
 > and
 >         respective governments.  Also, Belgium's government has even set
 >
 >         aside jets to search out UFO's that appear on radar.  This is a
 > most
 >         exciting development, and hopefully other governments will
 > follow
 >         in suit ;)

Actually, the Belgian case, from what I know, is the most important UFO event
in history because it is the first time that there has been a cooperative
effort at research between a government and a civilian scientific research
group.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7436 sci.skeptic:27739
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Zeta Reticuli Incident
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 04:25:15 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 67

Well, it's clear I'm not going to find my "UFO Files" anytime soon; 100+
boxes so far and nada.

However, I did find the following (obviously mis-filed :-)

                    "The Zeta Reticuli Incident"
                       by Terence Dickinson

                     With related commentary by:

                         Jeffrey L. Kretsch
                             Carl Sagan
                            Steven Soter
                          Robert Scheaffer
                           Marjorie Fish
                         David Saunders, and
                            Michael Peck

which is a 32-page, nicely printed (in color) reprint from ASTRONOMY Magazine.

From the frontispiece:

    The Zeta Reticuli Incident by Terrence Dickinson, et al.

    Copyright (C) 1976 by AstroMedia Corp., publisher of ASTRONOMY
    magazine, 757 N. Broadway, Suite 204, Milwaukee WI 53202, all rights
    reserved.  No part of this publication may be reproduced by any
    mechanical, photographic or electronic process, or otherwise copied
    for public or private use without written permission from the
    publisher.

    Price: $4.00 each.

``It all started this way:

    The date is Sept. 19, 1961.  A middle aged New Hampshire couple,
    Betty and Barney Hill, are driving home from ...
''

There are some excellent star charts and fact tables in the publication,
including characteristics of main sequence stars, data on the 46 nearest
starts to the sun, the "Fish-Hill Pattern Stars", etc.

Apparently this all appeared in the December 1974 issue of ASTRONOMY as
its lead article.

On the last page (of the reprint) is found some interesting commentary
about the Zeta Reticuli system by Jeffrey L. Kretsch:

``    Zeta Reticuli is a unique system in the solar neighborhood -- a
    wide physically associated pair of stars almost exactly like the
    sun.  After searching through a list of stars selected from the
    Gliese catalog on the basis of life criteria, only one other pair
    within a separation of even 0.3 light years could be found.  (This
    pair -- Gliese 201 and Gliese 202, a K5e and F8Ve pair separated by
    0.15 light years -- is currently being investigated.)  Zeta Reticuli
    is indeed a rare case.

    [...]
''

Many arguments, rebuttals, counter-arguments/-rebuttals are in the reprint.

Perhaps someone should determine whether copies are still available.


Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!pioneer.unm.edu!opus
From: [e-mail] (Colby Kraybill)
Subject: Re: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 11:59:17 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: phobos
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I have posted the much discussed UFO-pic from the phobos 2 probe into
>
>alt.binaries.pictures.misc     and   alt.alien.visitors   newsgroups !
>

I am posting a follow up image to this "UFO-pic" that I think many people might
find to be interesting.  The image is in gif format and will be posted to
the same two groups mentioned above.


--
Colby Kraybill
Space and Planetary Image Facility
University of New Mexico
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From: [e-mail] (Colby Kraybill)
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.misc,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Follow up to "UFO-Pic"
Message-ID: <6rfmyy=@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:25:51 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility
Lines: 386




This is a follow up to a recent post proclaiming that a russian space
probe had possibly returned images of a UFO.

I enhanced the photo a little and got rid of everything but the rock.

I will check my images of Phobos itself, but I believe that this could
be Phobos itself.


------8<-------CUT HERE------8<------8<------8<-------------
begin 644 phobos.gif
M1TE&.#=AV "V .<   \ $@_+  ^W  ^Q  X % ^= !$ !@S_2 S_-!( "A$
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MOA T  S_J@")_Q @  "#_Q :  O__PS_E@OY_P\ $P!O_P!I_POE_P!;_PO?
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end
------8<-------CUT HERE------8<------8<------8<-------------

--
Colby Kraybill
Space and Planetary Image Facility
University of New Mexico
Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7439 sci.skeptic:27744
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad
From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 05:58:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References:  <[e-mail]>
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:

|  [...]
|  be discovered or created, even fudged so we could understand how you can
|  go through space that fast without the g-force problems associated with
|  normal rocket accelleration.
|  [...]

Wellll, a "solution" to the problem of g-forces would be an "inertia-less"
drive.  One would be even able to make abrupt, right-angle turns at speed
without any deleterious effects.

Damifino how one would go about constructing such a drive, though.  A
Unified Field Theory hasn't materialized (yet), and that would be only
the FIRST step.  Heck, we haven't [practicably] harnessed fusion!

I wonder: does anyone know if there ARE any researchers tackling the problem
(of a Unified Field Theory)?  I haven't the background, funding, nor the time
to do so myself, and I haven't read of any ongoing studies in the journals to
which I subscribe.

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:48:33 GMT
Lines: 19


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>I don't think so Joe.  I'll have to admit sometimes not knowing
>about a particular problem and not doing anything about it can
>often be a good method of keeping you out of trouble.
>John Winston.


        Dear John

        Would it be possible for you to stop cluttering the networks with
        your  personal messages.    This  is  incredibly  irritating  not
        mention that it violates network etiquette.  Please send all your
        meaningless (to the rest of  us)  messages to the intended target
        versus the whole world.

        Thanks

        Steve Food_for_the_Grays
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd2.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References:  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>I don't think so Joe.  I'll have to admit sometimes not knowing
>about a particular problem and not doing anything about it can
>often be a good method of keeping you out of trouble.
>John Winston.


        Dear John

        Would it be possible for you to stop cluttering the networks with
        your  personal messages.    This  is  incredibly  irritating  not
        mention that it violates network etticute.
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...

>court of law...If you want to think I a nut, fine...But please don't try
>to ruin my reputation by making others believe that I am writing totally
>ludicrous notes on here...Thank You,
>                        Gary Stollman

> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet

        Gary,

        All of your  notes  a ludicrous and your reputation as a nut case
        has not been damaged, so don't worry about it.

        Steve Food_for_the_Grays
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Aaron Anderer - System) writes...
>I was talking to my mom about some of the stuff I've been reading in this
>group, and I mentioned Zeta Reticuli.  She said that she heard that star system
>had a super nova quite recently, actually one of the larger ones.  Could some

        WRONG!

        there have  been  no  known super  novas  in  our  galaxy in quit
        sonetime.  they  are  a  rare event and the most recent have been
        extra galactic.

        Steve Food_for_the_Grays
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 06:15:39 PDT
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Dear Dan: Your pretty cotton picking funny. Sounds like your having
a good laugh out of all of this.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: My thoughts and experiences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 06:16:56 PDT
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In article <[e-mail]> I wrote:

|  [...]
|  Just out of curiousity, when was LARC built and commissioned?  Are the
|  "stilts" a form of shock isolation or something mandated by the topology?
|  [...]

As was [politely and privately] brought to my attention, "topology" is NOT
the correct word; s/b "topography."  :-)

I'll plead:

    (a) my math background (in re a Freudian slip), and
    (b) the lateness of the [posting] hour.

But, how many other twin-dome observatories are there besides LARC (at
Northwestern U.) and the one at NMSU?

Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 06:20:28 PDT
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Dear Everybody: At the present time I'm  attempting to copy some
more of the Sharri information from audio tape to post it on the
net.
John Winston.
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From: [e-mail] (Anthony Aguirre)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:31:12 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
|> > Nope.  The fact is that nothing can travel faster than light, in any reference
|> > frame.  If it wasn't for the foreshortening effect, you would literally see
|> > the universe passing by faster than the speed of light.
|>
|> I disagree. One cannot see anything passing faster than the speed of light, but
|> that does not stop objects travelling faster than c.
|>
|> The speed-of-light is the speed of that light transmitted or reflected by any
|> object. It is a constant, no matter what the speed of the object is -
|> whether it is stationary, moving at 100 mph or 186,000 mph (all relative to
|> the observer on Earth). Like watching a car - stopped or going.
|>
|> BUT LIGHT SPEED IS INDEPENDENT from THE SPEED OF THE OBJECT.
|>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^                     ^^^^^^
|>
|> If an object travels SLOWER than the speed of light it would be observed as
|> being `where it is'. BUT it is only NEAR where it is (the difference is so
|> little). It takes time for the light to travel to our eye, during which the
|> object has moved on. But this is not obvious at relative slow speeds such as
|> occur in everyday life (like catching a ball or watching a car). This is
|> "convenient" else we would be run over by a car that was not there at the
|> time. :-)
|>
|> If an object travelled FASTER than the speed of light, it would not be observed
|> as being where it actually is. This would not be significant until it travelled
|> at much higher speeds than light. So what? Sometime after it stopped its image
|> would catch up with it. Thus the object would not appear to have exceeded the
|> speed of light, to the stationary observer (who is only observing the image).

    You really have things backwards.  The statement "nothing can travel
faster than the speed of light" as applied to a massive object means, for
example, that is a spaceship sets out for a star four light years away, it CANNOT
return in less than 8 years, as measured on earth.  Now if the traveler is going
near the speed of light, he will measure that less time has passed, thus will
claim that he went "faster than light" but Lorentz distance contraction, as was
pointed out, takes care of this.
    However, it is easy to make "something" travel faster than the speed of
light.  For example, shine a laser onto the moon.  Flick yourwrist, and watch the
spot of light move across the moon's surface at much > speed of light.  This does
not violated relativity because all you are really sesing is a locus of light
emissions (reflectiosn from the surface)  Likewise, if something COULD travel
faster than the speed of light, it would not "out-run" it's image.  I'm not sure
what would be seen exactly (since the object would be > infinitely short and
massive) but this has nothing to do with "outrunning" an image.


|> Bad luck if the object is travelling straight at you. All that would be seen is
|> a black hole until well after it passed (or hit) you.
|>
|> Compare this to the speed of sound. We can see an event such as a gunshot
|> before hearing it. The speed of the bullet is not effected by the observation.
|>
|> To the observer aboard the object/craft, other objects around it would appear
|> to be the ones moving. Again they would not appear to be travelling at above
|> the speed of light but in fact they would not be where they appear to be.
|> Collisions would be unavoidable if navigation was based on sight. Computers
|> could adjust for known objects, but uncharted small particles would be
|> disastrous unless the craft was protected by a "forcefield", as they would hit
|> before they were seen. Using some means of detection other than light, it might
|> be possible to navigate ad-hoc at above-light speed. Is there any such method?
|> An expendable "pathfinder" might be possible - send another craft on the same
|> path slightly before your flight. The distance (time?) between the two flights
|> would be the reaction time of the second craft to navigational changes. I don't
|> think this will work. What if you ran into another pathfinder?
|>
|> Inside the craft the observer would not notice any difference as all objects
|> would be travelling at close to the same speed, including the observer. However
|> movements needing timing, such as eye-hand coordination, would they be clumsy?
|>
|> Looking out of the craft the observer would in fact be looking forward/back in
|> TIME. Looking to the rear while overtaking the light that had been reflected
|> from the Earth the observer would see into the past. Or would he see nothing -
|> a black hole? Looking forward you would see into the future. All these
|> observations are of course relative to the observer on earth.
|>
|> This thought exercise has been fun, but the practicalities are another thing.
|> How does one get all those molecules to accelerate enormously at the same time.
|> This is necessary if the craft is to avoid either dragging its tail or
|> squashing its nose.

This would not be a problem, since the acceleration would not be that great.
Assuming no realtivistic effects (which you seem to do), one could reach the
speed of light in about 1 year accelerating at only 9.8 m/s/s, for example.

 Or what if the destination is no longer there - how would
|> you know until you were under way.
|>
|> Personally I don't see the point of travelling at these speeds. We don't need
|> to send humans anywhere around the universe - we can build observers for us,
|> but they can only communicate at c or less, unless the message is "attached" to
|> an object travelling above the speed of light. Our biology is not designed for
|> it. The Earth is our only home for some time, I'm afraid.
|>
|> Big Al
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Warren)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:04:01 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>> Nope.  The fact is that nothing can travel faster than light,
>> in any reference frame

>I disagree.One cannot see anything passing faster than the speed of light, but
>that does not stop objects travelling faster than c.

Well, Big Al, you are welcome to disagree, but you are completely
mistaken.  You could just as easily say the earth is flat.  There are
plenty of people who claim that Einstein's special theory of relativity
is incorrect (which is what you just said).  If any of these guys could
actually demonstrate an experimental contradiction of the theory then
real scientists would listen to them.  As it is, there is not a single
experiment published that disproves Einstein's special theory of
relativity.  Everything I stated in my article is a simple and basic
introductory exposition of Einstein's theory.

>If an object travelled FASTER than the speed of light,it would not be observed
>as being where it actually is.This would not be significant until it travelled
>at much higher speeds than light. So what? Sometime after it stopped its image
>would catch up with it. Thus the object would not appear to have exceeded the
>speed of light, to the stationary observer (who is only observing the image).
>Bad luck if the object is travelling straight at you.All that would be seen is
>a black hole until well after it passed (or hit) you.

This is incorrect.  If your theory were true, and an object passed by
you at FTL velocities, you would see the light that emitted from the
object as it approached you, and you would see the light that emitted
from the object as it departed from you.  You could easily calculate
the object's actual velocity by knowing the speed of light (you can
calculate back to where it really was in time from the moment you
receive the image).  You would in fact observe the object pass by you
at FTL speeds.

Many experimental confirmations of Einstein's theories have been
performed in particle accelerators.  Subatomic particles can be
accelerated to relativistic velocities and studied.  Your theory about
light catching up behind the object does not apply to an accelerator,
since the particle is propelled around a large ring and observed from
the side as it passes by.  If the particles were going faster than
light they would ping the detectors every time they passed by, and
their velocities could be computed by the distance around the ring.
But the particles don't ever reach the speed of light; they just
continue to get more and more massive.

>Compare this to the speed of sound. We can see an event such as a gunshot
>before hearing it. The speed of the bullet is not effected by the observation.

You are very confused about relativity.  I suggest you read a good
introductory text on the subject before you attempt to instruct others
about how it works.

The biggest practical reason that FTL travel is impossible (unless new
discoveries in physics are made - that are not anticipated right now)
is because of the mass increase phenomenum.  This has been repeatedly
verified experimentally, so whether or not you think that it makes any
sense, it is in fact the way reality works.  The faster a ship tries to
go, the more massive it gets, which means that the faster the ship
attempts to go, the harder it is to go any faster.  The mass approaches
infinity as velocity approaches the speed of light.  There is no known
way to get around this.  This phenomenum was clearly predicted by
Einstein's theory.  Saying it isn't so is the intellectual equivalent
of sticking your head in the sand.
--
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
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From: [e-mail] (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:
>
>|  [...]
>|  be discovered or created, even fudged so we could understand how you can
>|  go through space that fast without the g-force problems associated with
>|  normal rocket accelleration.
>|  [...]
>
>Wellll, a "solution" to the problem of g-forces would be an "inertia-less"
>drive.  One would be even able to make abrupt, right-angle turns at speed
>without any deleterious effects.
>
>Damifino how one would go about constructing such a drive, though.  A
>Unified Field Theory hasn't materialized (yet), and that would be only
>the FIRST step.  Heck, we haven't [practicably] harnessed fusion!

That's true if you want a true inertialess drive.  On the other hand, if you've
got energy and reaction mass to spare, a handy black hole or something similar,
and a way to latch onto it, Robert L. Forward (I think) has proposed (in
science fiction) a way to deal with the high accelerations:  Construct a
spacecraft with a crew module that can be held at a controlled distance from
your tame black hole.  Adjust the position of the crew module so that
gravitational acceleration toward the black hole balances the acceleration due
to thrust for the crew.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: [e-mail] | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
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TRANSFER
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From: [e-mail] (Tom Clune)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Date: 22 Jul 1992 15:38:52 GMT
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A while back, some astronomers noticed some jets associated with galaxies that
"appeared" to exceed the speed of light.  The simple resolution of this paradox
is relevant to this discussion.

Suppose a ship takes off from a star 10 light years away, and heads straight
toward Earth.  Lets assume the ship quickly attains the speed of 90%
of the speed of light (relative to the earth).
At first we on Earth see nothing.  In fact only after ten years do we see
the ship take off.  (Of course being scientists, we can then infer the original
departure time by extrapolation.).  The ship reaches us 11.1 years after
its departure.  Hence, a naive observer on the Earth "sees" the ship travel
10 light years in only 1.1 years.  There is no contradiction with relativity
here.

In fact, by playing with the numbers one can arrange situations
in which arbitrarily high speeds are "observed".  Once the propagation speed
of the light we are using for observation is taken into account though, all
relative velocities will be found to be less than the speed of light (according to
special relativity, which seems prettyy well established by experiment).

- Tom

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From: [e-mail] (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Part 2. We plan to cooperate in establishing this link in a technological,
>pragmmatic, Twentieth-Century working relationship.  One way this
>cooperation between dimensions can become a reality is for Earthman in the
>majority, to invite us to land openly on your planet. To interfere in
>the affairs of Man without an invitaion is in violation of interplanetary
>law.

Hmmm, _begging_ for an invitation isn't interfering?

Glenn "if they come, they better bring beer!" Tinseth

--
 Glenn Tinseth                                 Chemistry Department
 [e-mail]                      Oregon State University
     Brewing all the beer I drink, drinking all the beer I brew.
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From: [e-mail] (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Keywords: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <#[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:41:02 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:
>I was talking to my mom about some of the stuff I've been reading in this
>group, and I mentioned Zeta Reticuli.  She said that she heard that star
>system
>had a super nova quite recently, actually one of the larger ones.  Could some
>one fill me in?

What exactly do you mean by recently?  Did it occur recently, i.e. less
than forty years.  Or was it observed hear recently?  If enough time has
elapsed for the light of the SN to arrive here then we would have seen it.
A SN that close would be at least as bright as the full moon.  If it
occurred less than 40 years ago there is no classical way for us to have
knowledge of the event.  So, unequivicolly, if the SN occurred 40 to
say 1000 years ago we would know about it (the earliest records of SN
date from 1006 if memory serves.)  If it occurred 0 to 40 years ago
who knows.  Earlier than 1000 years ago is not what on a human timescale
I would call recent so...

>I'd also have to wonder about propulsion from there, since
>it is about 40 light years from us, since (according to my calculations,
>correct me if I'm wrong, but all flames to /dev/null)
>234,627,900,000,000miles
>away from earth. I understand that you would have to travel awful fast to get
>here in a commuter fashion, but from what some people have told me,
>it takes a
>pleidian ship 14 minutes to get here from there(don't quote me on this), if

This comes out to sometning like 1,502,000 times the speed of light, quiet
a mover of a ship.  Makes the _Bistromath_ look like a blimp.

>that was true wouldn't the theory of folding space, wormholes, or hyperspace
>be discovered or created, even fudged so we could understand how you can
>go through space that fast without the g-force problems associated with
>normal rocket accelleration.
>
>And what about all of this columbus day 1992 thing?  anybody got any proof,
>?
I don't know, but when you find out ell me.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Aaron Anderer, System Operator                [e-mail]
>SPECTROX SYSTEMS [phone]              szebra!spectrx!aaron
>
Ithlial

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
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From: [e-mail] (Aero Student Account)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Message-ID: <aero.711820272@titan>
Sender: [e-mail] (Nets)
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[e-mail] writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Warren) writes:
>> Nope.  The fact is that nothing can travel faster than light, in any reference
>> frame.  If it wasn't for the foreshortening effect, you would literally see
>> the universe passing by faster than the speed of light.

>I disagree. One cannot see anything passing faster than the speed of light, but
>that does not stop objects travelling faster than c.

Where did you get this conclusion?????  (And I did read the rest of the
article)  From the first part of the statement,
it seems you think you accept relativity.  But the second part shows that you
have a faulty understanding of it.  NOTE: RELATIVITY PROHIBITS TRAVEL AT
C OR ABOVE!!!!  PERIOD.  Furthermore, relativity prohibits the transmission
of any information by any means at speeds faster than light.

--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
[e-mail]

"Yippee!  That may have been a small one for Neil,
 but it was a big one for me."
                            --Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (EL GATES)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:47:57 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: zeta reticuli?
Lines: 13

Zeta Reticuli has NOT gone supernova! In fact, Zeta Reticuli will
never go supernova since it is not a massive enough star!
Even if it could have gone supernova we would have all
seen it since it would be very bright during the day!  In fact it
would be a bigger deal than supernova 1987A which is the closest
recent supernova (in occured in one of the companion galaxies to
the Milky Way).  In fact, the crab supernova in 1054 AD was seen
during the day and it was about 6000 light-years away.  Just think
how bright Zeta Reticuli would be since it is only about 40 light-
years distant.

El

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From: [e-mail] (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:53:06 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>
>Wellll, a "solution" to the problem of g-forces would be an "inertia-less"
>drive.  One would be even able to make abrupt, right-angle turns at speed
>without any deleterious effects.

Irrespective of the how the drive operates you still possess intertia,
and this is what matters.  What you need to do is damp the inertia of
youself and you ship.  Then since your inertial mass is near zero
even a small amount of force will drastically change you velocity.

>
>Thad Floryan [ [e-mail] ]

Ithlial

[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"



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From: [e-mail] (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:57:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Lines: 13

According to [e-mail] (Gary Stollman):
>But please don't try to ruin my reputation by making others believe
>that I am writing totally ludicrous notes on here...

Heh.

Heheh.

BwaHAHAHAHAhaha.....
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10881 alt.alien.visitors:7460 sci.skeptic:27759 alt.peeves:22033
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.peeves
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From: [e-mail] (Ed Gruberman)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 16:34:24 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dan Hillman) writes:
>Gosh, an astral *Smokey and the Bandit*! My engorged mantool is already
>reaching for the stars!!!
>
>Don't forget the platform shoes and the mood ring, John-boy. Four out
>of five unwashed holy men stress the importance of 70s accouterments
>when communicating with the dead.
                             ^^^^ ?!
>
>--
>| _   ;/                                                          Dan Hillman
>|(")_/   "I'm right and you're not."                   [e-mail]
>|~~/                                                 University of New Mexico
>|~/                                               Land of Fucking Enchantment
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hey, DAN -                                                i've been quite
i'm not dead yet!                                        disenchanted with
                                                         this aspect of it...
i'm feeling much better!

i feel happy!

i want to dance!

oh, by the way, johnwinston - a friend of mine will be with me
a) to stand "guard"  (ie make sure i'm not bothered by people)
and
b) to provide testimony if necessary.

so i guess this is midnight my time then.  did you send a photo yes-
terday?

you aren't in any way related to johnbigbooty are you?
:)  :)  :)

dude!
shannon the not-having-any-Expectations-of-any-Kind-so-as-to-be-
        Non-Biased mouthy pushy ranting broad who isn't dead
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From: [e-mail] (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager))
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:47:20 GMT
Lines: 7

|> Glenn "if they come, they better bring beer!" Tinseth
A LOT of beer!  (And maybe some pizza.)  :-)

--
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  [e-mail]
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!tigger!fedrick
From: [e-mail] (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Planet)
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:16:12 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Aaron Anderer - System) writes:
>
>|  [...]
>|  be discovered or created, even fudged so we could understand how you can
>|  go through space that fast without the g-force problems associated with
>|  normal rocket accelleration.
>|  [...]
>
>Wellll, a "solution" to the problem of g-forces would be an "inertia-less"
>drive.  One would be even able to make abrupt, right-angle turns at speed
>without any deleterious effects.

 Oh come on people. Use the correct terms for christ sake. It is called
 an Inertial Dampening Field (IDF), and *everyone* knows you need one of
 these if you dont want to spend 99% of your time accelarating and
 decelarating before and after you jump through hyperspace. Remember
 you can't go through the jump near any large gravitational fields.
 Huh? Oh, you didn't know that either? Sigh.

-kelvin
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:32:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 47

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:
|>
|>  >         From what I understand UFO cases from Belgium are unique.  This
|>  > is
|>  >         due to the recent government decision by that country to
|>  > disclose all
|>  >         infromation on UFO's.  Thus, there may well be just as many UFO
|>  > cases
|>  >         in neighboring countries, but they are unreported by witnesses
|>  > and
|>  >         respective governments.  Also, Belgium's government has even set
|>  >
|>  >         aside jets to search out UFO's that appear on radar.  This is a
|>  > most
|>  >         exciting development, and hopefully other governments will
|>  > follow
|>  >         in suit ;)
|>
|> Actually, the Belgian case, from what I know, is the most important UFO event
|> in history because it is the first time that there has been a cooperative
|> effort at research between a government and a civilian scientific research
|> group.
|>
|> Mike
|>
[sig deleted]


I'm wearing my "cynic hat" now.


If the Belgian government thought the UFOs were some kind of secret
American aircraft being tested (illegally) over their country, I would
expect them to "threaten" the Americans by allowing the *public* release
of *any* information they find out about the objects.


Now I'm taking off my "cynic hat."

(hmmm.. where did I leave my "skeptic funny-nose-and-glasses" ;^)


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!utcsri!torn!cunews!revcan!micor!uuisis!bbs
From: [e-mail] (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 04:53:01 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 47

[e-mail] writes:

> Dear Doug: You ask if I can control the messages that are sent. In the
> past the experimenter just wanted to make contact so I just looked
> around and observed the one I went to see.  This lady later just sent
> me a message of love and  good will.
> John Winston.

Thanks John. "love and good will" is content. I don't mean to be trite here,
but could she have sent "the car broke down 25 miles south of Snowville,
would you call a tow-truck for me?"

I've had people get in touch with me telepathically - very close friends -
at points of crisis when they did need help. The messages were quite garbled
- I'd wake up for instance in a cold sweat, knowing that my friend was in a
crisis - and then get a phone call a little later which explained it all.

Another friend knows when I want to talk to her. She'll often phone at such
points when I consciously ask her to (telepathically). What I'd like to do
is understand this phenomenon better.

So far it seems to me that it is fairly easy to communicate emotions,
especially when they are strong, telepathically. The communication of ideas
and thoughts though, appears more difficult.  I have heard it said that one
can communicate pictures sometimes, and that if you want to get an idea
across to someone clearly, visualize it and then attempt a telepathic
transfer - i.e. the 'funnel technique'. In the above example, if I wished to
call for help I would form a clear mental picture of the problem (broken
car) and the location (picture the map) and the request (make a phone call).

One more thought on the 'trite' aspect. I am aware that there is room for
abuse in 'playing' with powerful forces that are not well understood. I'm
interested in any observations anyone might have on this topic.

I don't want to end up playing with something dangerous but some of my
far-away friends don't have e-mail (alas) and long distance telephony is
horribly expensive. :-)

=Doug

----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!doug                Voice: 613-722-4724
DNS:  [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]
                      SKAN Communications Inc
      POST: P.0. Box 3041, Stn C., Ottawa, K1Y 4J3, CANADA
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Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: alt.alien.visitors inspired dreams.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:14:09 GMT
Lines: 43


This group is giving me weird dreams. Here are a couple from the last
week. The first dream may be inspired by my interest in UFOs in general,
but the second dream is definitely alt.alien.visitors fault :^)

I was near the edge of a wooded area in what looked like someone's
back yard. It was bright and sunny and I was watching a strange
rugby ball shaped object floating near some bushes. The object was
about 1 foot long and was a living creature. It was black and had
ribbon-like "fins" along the length of its body. It looked like one
of those "spanish dancer" sea creatures (nudibranch?) In my dream,
I was familiar with these creatures, and I mostly ignored them like
everyone else. It suddenly occurred to me that the creatures hadn't
always been here, that they shouldn't be here. Just then a strange
thought came over me. I thought that if I look at the creatures and
concentrate, I would see them as they "really were". I turned around
and looked at the space where the creature was and in its place I
saw a small black-eyed grey alien about 3 feet tall. It was wearing
a small black monks outfit and appeared not to notice that I could
see its true form. It must have realized that fact soon enough because
it turned to look at me. I became so frightened that I woke up.

The second dream happened just last night. I was at a family barbecue
and for some reason my stepfather was secretly butchering up 2 small
grey aliens to serve as the main course. In my dream I was horrified at
this semi-cannibalism but I didn't say anything for some reason. After
the grey meat was cooked, my stepfather served up a platter containing
fist-sized chunks of grey meat on a bed of lettuce. The meat was
orange-grey in colour and had the texture of a fine-celled sponge.
Everyone else at the barbecue thought it was exceptionally good
salmon, but they didn't know where it really came from. I was sickened
when I tried to eat it, but it did taste like some decent salmon.
Then I woke up.


Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:09:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.+6fmdv
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Dear Everybody: At the present time I'm  attempting to copy some
>more of the Sharri information from audio tape to post it on the
>net.
>John Winston.

John,

At the present time I have just taken my shoes off after a very satisfying
trip to the restroom.  But I bet most of the rest of this group wouldn't
give a satisfying trip to the restroom to hear me report this every time
it happens.

Cary


[e-mail]

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!wdo
From: [e-mail] (Bill Overpeck)
Subject: astral travel
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:38:35 GMT
Lines: 12

John, many of us here are interested in the relationship between
astral travel (out of body experiences) and near death experiences.

When you are traveling in the astral plane (assuming that such
travel is not possible in the physical plane), is this accomplished
via an astral "body" or is this a purely non-physical experience.

What is your opinion of near death experiences?  Are such events
merely the first occurrence (for most people) of the astral body
leaving the physical body?

Bill, Scot, Keith, Aaron, George, and Lubbe
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10891 alt.alien.visitors:7468 sci.skeptic:27776
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From: [e-mail] (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:56:20 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>|> Glenn "if they come, they better bring beer!" Tinseth
>A LOT of beer!  (And maybe some pizza.)  :-)
>
>--
>  Robert E. McGrath
>  Urbana Illinois
>  [e-mail]

Only if it's good beer, none of this soda water with alcohol stuff.

Ithlial

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go,
"What, was THAT?!"



Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27777 alt.alien.visitors:7469
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:00:32 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's
>body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
>for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
>pass on anyway.
>John Winston.

Oh good god, John, you get more rabid by the month!

On the other hand, you're almost as entertaining as scanning the tabloid
headlines in the supermarket checkouts.  Keep it up!


kbq


--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27778 alt.alien.visitors:7470
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From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
References: <c_#[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:09:58 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Did you ever wonder why guys who claim telepathy, reincarnation, and
>contact with spiritual masters and aliens can't even write simple
>English?
>
>-30-
>Bob
>
>``Che stronzi!'' -- Federico Fellini

But Bob - at least John is no longer posting in all caps!  Some improvement,
at least.


kbq


--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: astral travel
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.oobe
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
References:  <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:18:09 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Overpeck) writes:
|> John, many of us here are interested in the relationship between
|> astral travel (out of body experiences) and near death experiences.
|>
|> When you are traveling in the astral plane (assuming that such
|> travel is not possible in the physical plane), is this accomplished
|> via an astral "body" or is this a purely non-physical experience.
|>
|> What is your opinion of near death experiences?  Are such events
|> merely the first occurrence (for most people) of the astral body
|> leaving the physical body?
|>
|> Bill, Scot, Keith, Aaron, George, and Lubbe


Could you please take this discussion to email or a more appropriate
newsgroup? (alt.oobe, alt.paranormal, talk.religion.newage, etc...)

Thanks,

Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Colby Kraybill)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Keywords: phobos
Message-ID: <w![e-mail]>
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:40:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>
>The UFO is approximately 15 and 1/2 miles long !
>

I am also curious as to how the size of the object was determined.

After some more poking around,

Phobos has the shape of an ellipsoid, whose major axis are 27.9 km, and
19km.  That is 16 miles by 11 miles.  If the measurements of the object are
correct, this could *easily* be Phobos.

Deimos is only only 15 km along it's major axes.


--
Colby Kraybill
Space and Planetary Image Facility
University of New Mexico
Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10892 alt.alien.visitors:7473 sci.skeptic:27788
Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Prime Directive
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 17:55:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 9

Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name
of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not
been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote
me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message
and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This
has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights
I did a little warm up astral projection.  Remember tonight at 1100 PM
it the time we'll do the experiment.
John Winston.